Government spying

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
This is orchestrated sedition cloaked in defense of "civil rights."...This is treason repackaged to appear virtuous.

While Mul may be personally harmless, what he represents is an immediate danger to this country. This is the "imminent threat" we were warned about, and it has nothing to do with Saddam.

The Bush administration and its supporters inch closer to totalitarianism with each passing day.

The WWII Japanese internments wil look like a tea party compared to what these people would do if we give them the power.

Be vigilant. It's our freedom to lose.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by cool_chick


It's unconstitutional. There is nothing that proves in the constitution these powers are inherent in the executive branch, and you know it.

The argument is that it's implied in the powers of the Commander in Chief during wartime.

[lendaddy]

So Rodeo, your argument is sorta like "Today they came for terrorists, but I was not a terrorist so did not speak up"???

Paranoia I say,.

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by t951
Well our president, I would never be foolish enough to call him a leader, has done the following:

Declared victory in a war that isn't close to being over.
Is causing soldiers to die for oil. (Gee, he is an oil baron, and they had their most profitable year ever despite the pains of the US).
Used an excuse (WMDs) to go to war (and then later recanted).
Despite what people say, our economy is terrible. The dollar is in danger of being replaced by other currency as the standard. If you read in Forbes you will see the drug and weapon dealers from around the world are now using the euro. pretty sad if even the trash of the world realizes it has no value. (I am sure some of you will hop on that statement as a way to show how lame the point is, and if you do, your not getting what I am saying).
He has alienated the US from the rest of the world in a way that is hard to imagine. I would bet that those who disagree with my points watch the cartoon news channel (Fox "News") and do not read or watch news from other countries.
He plays two cards in the hope that people aren't willing to contradict them in order to look bad. "Be patriotic, its good for the country." and "I am a good christian". Good christians dont send people to die for oil.

I could go on and on, but this is really getting dull. I was a republican till George. Now, I am not anti-repub, or a democrat. I am not in favor of the idiot.

I am sure there is some wood in there for some flames. Have at it.

Interesting "spin" on the Dollar vs. Euro, the rest of your rant has been covered 1,000,000,000 times here already - including the line of yours - "I'm a recovered Republican, trust me!" that gets tried 2x a week.

The Dollar became the informal standard around the world since it's value is understood everywhere, and it's a very stable trading standard. You want to know why it's stable? Simply put, we owe a lot of money elsewhere in the world - in short, our financial well being is everyone else's problem. One nice side benefit of owing other countries. No one will foreclose or repo us - we simply owe too much. If we fall, so does 1/2 of the world with it.

As for the Euro however, it's biggest reason for existence is to unite Europe economically - that makes Europe competitive against USA and China in terms of economic worth and power. Now Europe has a standard it uses within it's own borders which eliminates all the hassle of variances of worth between neighboring countries.

Dope dealers are not switching due to their fear of the dollar collapsing - that's your creation. They're using the Euro since its probably what their customers use. Once again, it's not due to fear of our collapse.

rjp

[t951]

The fact is that some people feel that giving away their rights cuz the president asks is good enough.

Others think that supporting blindly is the right thing to do.

An even smaller percentage feel that the president is doing the right thing.....not the simpletons listed above, but the rich upper .01 percent that have a lot of money in oil.

The fact that people are willing to watch this idiot side step the constitution makes you wonder what other things he is willing to skip that we do not know about.

He is a representative to the world of our country (sad as that is), and he should not EVER be seen as a person who doesnt follow our laws, or constitution or has a weak integrity.

Sadly he has shown all of the above. I bet if it was offered he would rather have the title king, or conqueror, or Overlord.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by cool_chick
And Kerry got a higher percentage than Clinton and and also more than Bush first term. And there was something like 1.8% difference between Kerry and Bush. What's your point? Still 1/3 of the country who voted for Bush, no matter how you try to paint it.

The argument was whether or whether not Bush got elected on majority. He did. He beat Kerry by over 3 million votes (that is including felons, dead folk, and illegal immigrants who primarily vote Democrat). Bush beat Kerry despite a Kerry friendly/Bush unfriendly press (Evan Thomas of Newsweak agrees)...Bush was elected with a majority (those who don't vote don't count, obviously).

[t951]

Randy,

Do some research.

You are correct in that we are not going anywhere, and that we owe the world. THe dollar is not going away.

The dollar is being replaced in areas where it was once never considered being replaced. I will try find the article in Forbes, as well as another in Fortune. The dollar is not just losing value, its losing its reputation.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
So Rodeo, your argument is sorta like "Today they came for terrorists, but I was not a terrorist so did not speak up"???

Paranoia I say,.

If you want to place your liberty in the hands of guys like Mul and Fint, be my guest. I'm not. Call it paranoid if you want. I call it smart.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by t951
The fact that people are willing to watch this idiot side step the constitution makes you wonder what other things he is willing to skip that we do not know...

Bush is an idiot?...Doesn't say much for the last 2 DNC Presidential candidates does it.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
If you want to place your liberty in the hands of guys like Mul and Fint, be my guest. I'm not. Call it paranoid if you want. I call it smart.

I never figured I would have an expected right to privacy when committing treason by aiding an overseas enemy of my country during wartime. Is this a right you thought we had? Does it really trouble you to lose it if you did? It's simply not a slope let alone a slippery one.

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by t951
Randy,

Do some research.

You are correct in that we are not going anywhere, and that we owe the world. THe dollar is not going away.

The dollar is being replaced in areas where it was once never considered being replaced. I will try find the article in Forbes, as well as another in Fortune. The dollar is not just losing value, its losing its reputation.

Believe me, I have done the research, and I follow the markets. As of "reputation" what is that supposed to mean?

One would assume the largest used form of currency would be the standard. The Euro sooner or later will meet that claim.

Where I disagree with your statement is the implication it's due to our pending collapse. that's not true. Who cares about the "street rep" or whatever your point was?

rjp

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by t951
Sadly he has shown all of the above.

You are offering leftist opinion for fact. Both are disingenuous at best.

You are proving yourself a leftist parrot, a simple regurgitator, a simple-minded fool. Make a case, don't offer an opinion wrapped up in weak allegations.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
I never figured I would have an expected right to privacy when committing treason by aiding an overseas enemy of my country during wartime. Is this a right you thought we had? Does it really trouble you to lose it if you did? It's simply not a slope let alone a slippery one.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you suggesting that I am committing treason by calling my aunt in Italy? Or by criticizing the president for listening in?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you suggesting that I am committing treason by calling my aunt in Italy? Or by criticizing the president for listening in?

Is your aunt a terrorist? Are you? If the answer is no then you're not being spied on. So who are you worried about? Get it?

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Is your aunt a terrorist? Are you? If the answer is no then you're not being spied on.

How do you know?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
How do you know?

Because the program as Bush presented it to Congress applies only to terrorists and those working with them. If you have evidence of misuse against non terrorist citizens then I suggest you contact the news organizations and your rep in congress!

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by t951
Randy,

Do some research.

You are correct in that we are not going anywhere, and that we owe the world. THe dollar is not going away.

The dollar is being replaced in areas where it was once never considered being replaced. I will try find the article in Forbes, as well as another in Fortune. The dollar is not just losing value, its losing its reputation.

One last (but pleasant) thought - thinking of this war like they would a business -

there isn't a better way to get your opponent to collapse then getting 'em to invest their money in YOUR cause? It's the old theory that if you're going to invest in something speculative, why risk your own money?

Brilliant!

rjp

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Because the program as Bush presented it to Congress applies only to terrorists and those working with them. If you have evidence of misuse against non terrorist citizens then I suggest you contact the news organizations and your rep in congress!

Let me put your answer in simpler terms: I know my calls are not tapped because the president said so.

Not good enough. Not even close.

Those guys in Philadelphia knew what they were doing.

[stevepaa]

Fint, Nul, again, a majority of Americans did not vote for him, 30% did. That's all you can say.

[Rodeo]

I'll tell you how I know my local calls are not tapped: to get a tap a law enforcement official would have to swear out an affidavit that there is probable cause to believe I am engaged in a criminal act, and provide supporting documentation and evidence attached to that affidavit.

He or she would then have to get approval to take that affidavit to a federal or state prosecutor. The prosecutor would look at the information and make an independent judgment that probable cause exists to invade my privacy.

The prosecutor would then take all of that to an Article III judge sworn to uphold the constitution, who would look over the affidavit and evidence, and who is accountable if he or she screws up. If the judge determines that a tap complies with the Constitution, my phone will be tapped.

Under the president’s plan, to tap my call to my aunt in Italy, somebody has to call somebody and tell them to do it.