Government spying

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Let me put your answer in simpler terms: I know my calls are not tapped because the president said so.

Not good enough. Not even close.

Those guys in Philadelphia knew what they were doing.

How do you know every call you've ever made in you life isn't recorded and cataloged in D.C. somewhere? How silly.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
I'll tell you how I know my local calls are not tapped:..............

No, according to your logic you know your calls are not tapped because some government official says they're not.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Rodeo
The Bush administration and its supporters inch closer to totalitarianism with each passing day.

The WWII Japanese internments wil look like a tea party compared to what these people would do if we give them the power.

Be vigilant. It's our freedom to lose.

It was Democrats who concentrated Japs in camps. It was Democrats who used the IRS to intimidate and harass political opposition and private citizenry. It was a Democrat who illegally acquired FBI files on perceived political enemies. It was Democrats who harbored Stalinist spies within high levels of government. It is Democrats who most closely philosophically relate to the worst socialist totalitarian dictators the world has seen...Just because there are some cross perceived similtarities does not mean there are any core philosophical similarities that would lead the direction of Mao/Pol Pot/Stalin/Hitler or Saddam Hussein.

The argument that you put forth is vaguely reminiscent of Democrats false attempt of linking Bush to Hitler, just because he supports a strong military. They jump to the conclusion that military=fascist, when without doubt the greatest advocates of military power have been the furthest left dictators the world has offered.

Comparing leftist tendencies to Bush holds no water.

[Mulhollanddose]

Ahhh, the good ole' days. The Republican party has left me.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
How do you know every call you've ever made in you life isn't recorded and cataloged in D.C. somewhere? How silly.

Silly? You have reduced your argument to this , and then call me silly?

If we really live in the Matrix, all this talk of freedom and liberty is silly. For purposes of discussion, however, let's presume that our Constitutional liberties have not already been trampled. Fair enough?

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
No, according to your logic you know your calls are not tapped because some government official says they're not.

No, because several government officials say its not.

Checks and balances.

Think back to 9th grade civics ... checks and balances.

we have the legislature making the laws, the executive enforcing them, and the judiciary overlooking. Some guy at NSA can't tap my phone. Not in America.

[Mulhollanddose]

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
No, because several government officials say its not.

Checks and balances.

Think back to 9th grade civics ... checks and balances.

Right and no one is even claiming that tapping non-terrorist involved citizens is legal so what is your point? What leads you to believe you may be at risk?

[Rodeo]

Its not me at risk! Its our system of government! It's our liberty.

Our system is three co-equal branches, each with a responsibility, and each with authority and oversight over the other. It's not perfect but its worked for a couple of hundred years.

Your system is "let's trust the president to do the right thing."

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Its not me at risk! Its our system of government! It's our liberty.

Our system is three co-equal branches, each with a responsibility, and each with authority and oversight over the other. It's not perfect but its worked for a couple of hundred years.

Your system is "let's trust the president to do the right thing."

You have lost no liberties here. Unless you consider treason and terrorism a liberty. Spying on non terrorist invovled citizens is illegal, are you worried that Bush will push for the ability to tap anyone he wants for any reason? I mean seriously, during a war our President has the ability to wire tap domestic terrorists and the like.....that's all were talking about.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Rodeo
Its not me at risk! Its our system of government! It's our liberty.

Remember that next time you see fit to vote for politicians bent on increasing the size of government and yoking the innocent taxpayer to achieve that end...alas, liberty is what liberals say it is...confiscatory and punitive taxation of course is for the greater good.

Rodeo, you should fear partnership between the monopolistically left establishment media and the Democrat party. You are giving evidence that the partnership is successful at spreading lies and brainwashing minds.

[Rodeo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
are you worried that Bush will push for the ability to tap anyone he wants for any reason?

That's what we are talking about. That's exactly what you are advocating! As long as the president says it is for a valid reason, that's good enough for you.

Answer this question. How do you know he is telling to truth? How do you know he has only listened to "terrorists?"

And as importantly, even if he is honest today, how do you know that tomorrow he won't change his mind?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
That's what we are talking about. That's exactly what you are advocating! As long as the president says it is for a valid reason, that's good enough for you.

No, only if it falls under defense in wartime. He claims to have the power to tap traitors to our country while at war... I agree.



Answer this question. How do you know he is telling to truth? How do you know he has only listened to "terrorists?"

Because he would be impeached if he wasn't. That's all the guarantee we ever get with any President. So what?


And as importantly, even if he is honest today, how do you know that tomorrow he won't change his mind?

Because it's illegal and would serve no purpose. Again, there is never any more than that.

[Rodeo]

You didn't answer the question. How do you know he is telling the truth?

Please don't say because he would be impeached. That's like saying nobody would cheat on their taxes because it's a crime.

What sources, other than what he tells us, can you identify that can verify that the president is telling the truth?

[Rodeo]

As to your point that spying on his own citizens "would serve no purpose," tell that to Castro. Tell that to Hitler and Stalin and Chairman Mao.

It's a very effective way to control the population. Combine it with unlimited detentions without benefit of charges or counsel or trial, and you have a pretty effective system of government. Even leaving out the torture part. Violative of everything we hold dear, but very effective.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Rodeo
You didn't answer the question. How do you know he is telling the truth?

Please don't say because he would be impeached. That's like saying nobody would cheat on their taxes because it's a crime.

What sources, other than what he tells us, can you identify that can verify that the president is telling the truth?

You don't, anymore than you know anyone else isn't lying. How do you know your doctor isn't violating your sphincter while your under anesthesia? How do you know your isn't compiling dirt on you to use for blackmail?

You want me to prove the unprovable.

Spying on a guys like you and me is just as illegal as it was 10 years ago.

[t951]

Ok, I can clearly see this is going nowhere.

The people that think Bush is decent are too brainwashed to realize what rights and money that he is taking away.

Those of us that have distanced ourselves from this moron are not going to be convinced that he is right.

Granted, my summary is somewhat slanted, but the point remains, no one is going to be swayed here.

PS I would wager 1000000 that I could CRUSH bush in a battle of wits. Granted its not fair, but it would prove a point. This would be like Shaq playing basketball against Oprah.

I would ask the people that think he is decent to read papers from around the world and see that they are in the vast minority. 5.8 billion people arent wront.

[t951]

sorry misspelled wrong.

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by t951
Ok, I can clearly see this is going nowhere.

The people that think Bush is decent are too brainwashed to realize what rights and money that he is taking away.

Those of us that have distanced ourselves from this moron are not going to be convinced that he is right.

Granted, my summary is somewhat slanted, but the point remains, no one is going to be swayed here.

PS I would wager 1000000 that I could CRUSH bush in a battle of wits. Granted its not fair, but it would prove a point. This would be like Shaq playing basketball against Oprah.

I would ask the people that think he is decent to read papers from around the world and see that they are in the vast minority. 5.8 billion people arent wront.

(golf clapping) "GOOD ANSWER! GOOD ANSWER!"

rjp

[oldsam]