Female acqaintance just got out and made herself pregnant...

[snowman]

Two things she cannot give the kid:
1 A father
2. A two parents (one man, one woman as two of the same thing dosen't count for much)

She is acting very selfishly and should be prosecuted for child abuse in my opinion. On the whole society should shun her, make her an example of bad behavior to help pervent more people from making stupid decisions.

Since she is a friend support her as advised by the single kids who posted above.

[FrayAdjacent911]

Regardless of any 'right' to 'judge'... people will, and there is no avoiding it.

If people went around not having opinions on moral issues, simply because they are themselves sinners, then society would crumble, because there would be no social pressure for people to remain moral.

Whatever this woman's reason for going out and getting a shake and bake kid, it's the kid that is going to suffer. Yes, it's sad when women are put in that kind of position through no fault of their own, but voluntarily is another matter. I believe this also applies to women who's marriages fail through their own faults.

I've been involved in discussions like this, and have found what is happening is that women nowadays do not feel the same social pressures that they did a few generations before, and up to that point. Women care a very great deal about what other women, and society as a whole, think about them. Now there is no pressure to get married, no pressure to have a nice home, no pressure to actually RAISE one's children (through lack of parental responsibility). So nowadays a woman doesn't feel the pressure to be married, to have a nice home, to be a good mother...

Anyway, I think at face value, people will take this as narcissism. She feels something lacking emotionally, and thinks having a kid will fulfill that need.

I'm not saying this all neccessarily applies to this woman. Some of it likely does. All of it might. Or in her case it may be all way off.

However, this is how it will be perceived. I hope she's prepared for it, because she made the choice, she will have to walk this path, thorns, potholes and speedbumps

[svandamme]

QUOTE]Originally posted by aways
"it's her body , her choice , her opportunity"... how 'bout her narcissism.

If she's so screwed up in her relationships with men, she ain't gonna make a very good parent, now is she?
I guess the welfare of the child is irrelevant... [/QUOTE]

yeah , oviously it's her fault that her relationships with men wen sour
it is not possible, that the men in her life were dorks
so it must be her fault, and as a result , it is impossible that she could be a good mum



you don't even know any facts about this woman , yet , you are certain that it must be her failure as a woman that made her make this choice.

Originally posted by snowman
Two things she cannot give the kid:
1 A father
2. A two parents (one man, one woman as two of the same thing dosen't count for much)

She is acting very selfishly and should be prosecuted for child abuse in my opinion. On the whole society should shun her, make her an example of bad behavior to help pervent more people from making stupid decisions.

Since she is a friend support her as advised by the single kids who posted above.

even a married couple canot guaranteed these things
i have many friend who were born in a marriage, but the dade went AWOL

there are no guarantees, we do not live in the 1950's... relationships are no longer simple

[i]

However, this is how it will be perceived. I hope she's prepared for it, because she made the choice, she will have to walk this path, thorns, potholes and speedbumps [/B]

fair enough... but the same thorns, potholes and speedbumps exist for a happely married couple.... children are no exact science, they do not come with a manual, true , it's easier with 2 loving, commited parents... but that ain't even a guarantee in a marriage... there's plenty couples where either partner turns out to be a dud, and the other one has to compensate ...

either way, nobody can predict anything

[svandamme]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Are all human actions morally and ethically equivalent?

If not, what's wrong with a discussion of, or judgment of, the morality or any given human action?

but why dismis, or talk trash about somebody's potential mistake?


benefit of doubt
innocent until proven guilty ( isn't this the cornerstone of the american legal system????? )


this woman has not harmed her future child
she did not abuse , or neglect it ?

the poster mentioned that he thinks she is intelligent..
she isn't retarded, or evil, or an addict who cannot care for a child... or her self.

is ther any reason to believe she is not capable?other than male chauvinism?

[aways]

Originally posted by svandamme
yeah , oviously it's her fault that her relationships with men wen sour
it is not possible, that the men in her life were dorks
so it must be her fault, and as a result , it is impossible that she could be a good mum

you don't even know any facts about this woman , yet , you are certain that it must be her failure as a woman that made her make this choice.

What I'm saying is that if all the men in her life are, or have been, "dorks", as you put it, then she's obviously not very good at selecting, and forming relationships with men... since, I'm sure you'll agree, most men are not "dorks". And if she has been the victim of some abuse at the hands of men that make her incapable of having a relationship with a man, then, although I have sympathy for her, it doesn't seem like she'd make an acceptable parental role model.

[techweenie]

Some of you guys are talking like Dr. Laura, the antichrist.

Take a deep breath and think, for one minute, if you possibly can, about the child. Imagine how damaging to the child it would be for his/her only parent to be "shunned."

These sound to me more like Islamic fundamentalist values being spouted, not Christian values. The child needs the support of any and all near. The mother does not need to be 'shunned' but assisted. But what do I know? I'm just an atheist.

[svandamme]

yeah , she can't select a proper mate,... her fault....

yeah , i agree, not all men are dorks... but there's a lot of dorks out there, and they are sneaky too,but it's her fault for beeing deceived if at all that are her motives for having a kid without a man.

and any women who was ever abused, should never have children.. makes sense.. if you're name is Hitler...
he made up lot's of rules too .... made assumtions and choices for other people. decided on what was worthwhile and what wasn't....but he didn't have much sympathy ... i guess that covers your a$$ doesn't it.. saying you have sympathy ... even if you don't even know her , or know her motives

[aways]

Originally posted by svandamme
yeah , she can't select a proper mate,... her fault....

yeah , i agree, not all men are dorks... but there's a lot of dorks out there, and they are sneaky too,but it's her fault for beeing deceived if at all that are her motives for having a kid without a man.

and any women who was ever abused, should never have children.. makes sense.. if you're name is Hitler...
he made up lot's of rules too .... made assumtions and choices for other people. decided on what was worthwhile and what wasn't....but he didn't have much sympathy ... i guess that covers your a$$ doesn't it.. saying you have sympathy ... even if you don't even know her , or know her motives

Dude, you're getting to emotional on this. Let's agree to disagree, and I wish you a Merry Christmas.

[svandamme]

emotional , yeah , because i didn't have a choice, and i know for fact my mum did everything she could for my sorry ass...


and i did have everything i needed.... but i got so manipulated by that *****head who pretended to be my dad, that even now i'm messed up and can't even relate to my mum.... it's not enough to realize this to just change it...if there is anything i know, it is that..... i have to live with it, so does my mum ... for the rest of our lives, and the *****head who caused this , doesn't care... so anyone who says that any woman is to blame for choosing to be a single mum... or is one not by choice.... and automatically "assumes" that it must be her fault, and also concludes that obviously she cannot raise a healthy, happy kid.... yeah right i get emotional...

i WISH my mum had stayed single.. despite the peer pressure, despite the negative vibes from parents and siblings, and friends.....

[aways]

I know pleanty of single moms who have done good job raising kids under very difficult circumstances. I'm sure your mom was in a similar situation. The judgement I was making was not on single moms, but on single women who decide they want to go to a sperm bank because they think it'd be neat to have a kid. In my view they owe it to the child to at least have it start out life with a mother and a father. Nobody I know is suggesting that living with an abusive father is preferable to being raised by a single mom, certainly not me.

[snowman]

A mom and dad is no guarente of good parents. But to choose to screw it up before the child is even born is criminal. Shunning the mom would not hurt as many children as having more of them around. Ie the least of two evils. She can be judged. She has chosen to be a single parent has she not?

[aways]

Originally posted by techweenie
Some of you guys are talking like Dr. Laura, the antichrist.

Take a deep breath and think, for one minute, if you possibly can, about the child. Imagine how damaging to the child it would be for his/her only parent to be "shunned."

These sound to me more like Islamic fundamentalist values being spouted, not Christian values. The child needs the support of any and all near. The mother does not need to be 'shunned' but assisted. But what do I know? I'm just an atheist.

Weenie, I share your sentiments, but consider the following: A society passes along its value system in part by stigmatizing bad behavior. The reason that teenage pregnancy was not a serious problem prior to the 60's, for example, was because unwed teenage girls were harshly stigmatized for getting knocked-up. Once the 60's revolution made it "no big deal" to get pregnant out of wedlock, it became an epidemic, particularly in the inner cities, where the rate among african american girls is over 50%. If society's response to teenage pregnancy and single-women sperm bank partons is "ok, that's a nice life choice. How can we help?", then we, as a society, are going to get much more of the behavior we don't necessarily want to encourage.

[Dennis Kalma]

Well, interesting comments. I (as the original poster) have learned a lot from all of your thoughts.

Conclusion? Tell her that while her decision causes me some upset, I will be there for her and her child if and when necessary. Not in her face with any moral lectures, but the quiet support as she and child need it.

It is the Christian thing to do....

Thank you all

Dennis

[campbellcj]

I'm not sure I can add much of value to the above discussion, but FWIW as a married father of one and a friend and relative of quite a few (dozen? hey this is Calif.) single parents -- I can honestly say that I would not wish single parenthood on any parent OR child.

Most of the single-parents I know have stepped up to the challenge and grown tremendously, remained friends, continue to work and/or contribute to society in various other ways, are GOOD PARENTS, etc. For the most part, they seem happy...TIRED and BROKE...but happy. Still, given a choice -- which your friend apparently had and made -- I think it is undeniable that two GOOD PARENTS beat one anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by techweenie
Your point of view is exactly what mine is, and I'm as far from a fundamentalist Christian as can be.

A mother-father family is the best environment for a child. Narcissism does seem to be what's driving a lot of similar pregnancies/adoptions.

But why take it out on the kid?

By all means, help.

I have an ex- GF who, as a single mom, adopted two older Russian orphans a year and a half ago, and I try to involve myself in activities with them as much as I can. It's healthier for the kids to see even an occasional male role than to be only with mom, IMHO.

Agreed and its good that you are involved, if only to give them some male role models in their lives.

Do not really agree with her reasoning on this but would rather see a man in her life full time before doing something like this.

JoeA

[Eldorado]

as far as your christian beliefs, you dont have to support her decision in order to support her..

edit: if i had read the whole thread, i would have realized you came to the same conclusion... good on you, you're doing the right thing...

[1967 R50/2]

Several of my female friends are single moms by divorce. I don't hink this woman knows what she is in for.

All morality aside, having TWO people to split their time for the kids makes life a whole lot easier. Very difficult as a single mom. Note that I am not saying impossible...but very, very difficult.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
Several of my female friends are single moms by divorce. I don't hink this woman knows what she is in for.

All morality aside, having TWO people to split their time for the kids makes life a whole lot easier. Very difficult as a single mom. Note that I am not saying impossible...but very, very difficult.

Agreed but kids need both a Mother and Father in their life to be somewhat well balanced. Life is difficult enough when there are two there to raise the kids.

I grew up part of my childhood with only one parent at home, as Dad traveled. He was there lots of the time but after they divorced when I was 10, it just was not the same, even if he lived nearby.

Starting off with less than a 100% situation at home puts the kid a rung down to start with that thats not good.

[amity914]

Did she ask your opinion?Did she ask for you to step in and take a role in the kids life. The child will be fine, my mother was a struggling single mom that made a mistake, and I have turned out okay, I have a normal relationship and have been married for 10 years. Get over it, its not really your role to look down on her. 99% of this world isn't perfect.

Hiedi

[Dennis Kalma]

No intention of stepping in unless I am asked. She has contacted me and informed me of the event.....not sure of her intent, but I will definitely keep it low key. Basically just the offer that I am available if she needs it....try and be a friend is all.

Oh yeah, I suspect her family will pretty well toss her as a part of this, I don't think they will be at all supportive of her choice, but who knows what the future will bring.

D.