GM....sigh...

HardDrive · 03-23-2006, 05:39 PM

I'm from the Detroit area, grandson of a UAW union steward. I so desperately want Detroit to succeed.

I stopped at the Buick dealership yesterday (yes, you read that right), because I had heard good chatter about the Lucerne. The salesman takes me to the most loaded one on the lot. Fit and finish is superb, styling is conservative, but it has great lines. We get inside, and its a bit of a time warp. OK.....deep breath....this is aimed at 50 year olds...this is ok....Nice leather, good fit and finish...but the radio...

The radio and AC controls are straight out of the....I dunno..80s? I ask the guy about getting navigation in the car. He looks at me and says, "its not available yet".

Me: *blink*...blank stare.

Him: "I know, I know. Its a mid year option."

Me: "What does that mean?"

Him: "It means that they put the car on sale before that had the navigation system ready. We should get cars with Navigation in about 2 months."

Me: *blink*...blank stare.

This is their bread and butter car!!!! Its replacing 2 CARS in their lineup that are over 60% of their overall sales! WTF do you mean I can't get navigation!!!! Arggggggg!!!!!! You manage to lure a 36 year old on to a Buick lot, only to tell him that navigation is not available. Funny, I can get navigation on a $22k volkwagon golf, why not on your $40k luxury car?

Did I mention the interior was CHOCOLATE BROWN?

Lexus will be selling their new ES350 in few months, direct competitor to this car. Hmmmmmmm.....I wonder if they will release it before the navigation system is ready?

*sigh*

island911 · 03-23-2006, 05:42 PM

. . .and there's the obligitory Lexus puff.

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-23-2006, 05:49 PM

Lucerne is a local dairy brand. I'm sure it'll sell great here in the land of the blue-hairs.

HardDrive · 03-23-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by island911
. . .and there's the obligitory Lexus puff.

LOL. Could help myself. They implanted a chip in my head when they sold me the RX. The TOLD me it was for the garage door opener.

plain fan · 03-23-2006, 06:00 PM

They make nice rentals.

strupgolf · 03-23-2006, 06:01 PM

To sell a brand new car today, at this price, without a NAV system avaiable is beyond me. GM always seems to be a little bit behind other brands in bringing out new stuff, but that's what got them in the mess they are in. I havent been in a GM dealership in over 10 years, at least to look at cars; nothing excites me.

m

yellowline · 03-23-2006, 06:13 PM

You know, you're on to something. How dare Porsche not offer the 997 convertible or Turbo at intro? Or heaven forbid, the Turbo convertible. What about BMW and the fact that the new M3 is unavailable, but the normal new 3 is? How about the 745i not being available with a V12 or long wheelbase initially? Or the AMG models, or the hybrid versions of various Japanese cars, or, or...

If they introduced the nav and it turned out it had a glitch, GM would be crucified by the public and press for never "learning their lesson."

If they waited until the midyear to introduce the whole car with nav, they'd be prolonging the stay of old models. And then they'd be spurned by the press and public.

craigster59 · craigster59's Garage

Nice to see they're on the "cutting edge" of design. Did the salesman open the trunk and exclaim "Look, room for a wheelchair AND a walker!"

HardDrive · 03-23-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline
You know, you're on to something. How dare Porsche not offer the 997 convertible or Turbo at intro? Or heaven forbid, the Turbo convertible. What about BMW and the fact that the new M3 is unavailable, but the normal new 3 is? How about the 745i not being available with a V12 or long wheelbase initially? Or the AMG models, or the hybrid versions of various Japanese cars, or, or...

If they introduced the nav and it turned out it had a glitch, GM would be crucified by the public and press for never "learning their lesson."

If they waited until the midyear to introduce the whole car with nav, they'd be prolonging the stay of old models. And then they'd be spurned by the press and public.

Your kind of missing the point. Its a NAVIGATION SYSTEM, not anti-matter warp drive engines. Whats to iron out?

I think I made it clear I am a supporter, not a hater of Detroit. I have purchase serveral American cars, and been very pleased with them. If there is any flaw in my logic, it is my assumption that everyone would want navigation. I would certainly expect it in a $40k car. But perhaps that is not a desireable feature in the over 50 set.

RoninLB · 03-23-2006, 09:43 PM

Detroit seems to be more controled by CPAs instead of engineers.

yellowline · 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
[B]Your kind of missing the point. Its a NAVIGATION SYSTEM, not anti-matter warp drive engines. Whats to iron out?

Nor are a turbocharger and bigger tires the newest in technology, if you think about it. A nav system doesn't fundamentally change the car, but I'd think the software, antenna, etc. may need further testing and refining. It'd suck to have your nav system crash. At least with a computer, you have a real interface and a shot at fixing it yourself. Perhaps they want feedback, to see how many people want nav?

Either way, if it does come out right, isn't it ok to wait 6 months? Wouldn't you rather see them iron it all out and do a decent to good job instead of produce crap and recall it later? I would. It's not like they're promising it for 2009, like a certain affordable muscle car with 4 seats, RWD, and a tire-shredding V8.

edit: Bad segway. But I want a black '69 Camaro or a new one that looks like it.

Moneyguy1 · 03-23-2006, 10:09 PM

I have a very reliable navigation system. I have a wife that can accurately read a MAP!!

Do modern cars really require all these "extras"? I would be happy with one that concentrated on the basics...starts, runs, doesn't leak fluids; you know the basic stuff...I would like a car that could be worked on by someone with a modicum of talent and didn't need thousands of dollars worth of specialized diagnostic tools.

HardDrive · 03-23-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
I have a very reliable navigation system. I have a wife that can accurately read a MAP!!

Do modern cars really require all these "extras"? I would be happy with one that concentrated on the basics...starts, runs, doesn't leak fluids; you know the basic stuff...I would like a car that could be worked on by someone with a modicum of talent and didn't need thousands of dollars worth of specialized diagnostic tools.

I half agree. I think the Germans have gotten themselves into trouble with using to many gizmos, Mercedes being the prime example. But navigation systems are not some new thing. And besides, not all of us are blessed with a wife you can read a map.

M.D. Holloway · 03-23-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RoninLB
Detroit seems to be more controled by CPAs instead of engineers.

They are and will be the stuff of great case studies of what not to do. It's size has kept it going like a huge barge drifting down the Mississippi but soon it will dump out into the ocean and become lost and will sink without fanfare or remorse. They have elegently choosen to suck and it is a crying shame.

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-23-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline
Nor are a turbocharger and bigger tires the newest in technology, if you think about it. A nav system doesn't fundamentally change the car, but I'd think the software, antenna, etc. may need further testing and refining. It'd suck to have your nav system crash. At least with a computer, you have a real interface and a shot at fixing it yourself. Perhaps they want feedback, to see how many people want nav?

Either way, if it does come out right, isn't it ok to wait 6 months? Wouldn't you rather see them iron it all out and do a decent to good job instead of produce crap and recall it later? I would. It's not like they're promising it for 2009, like a certain affordable muscle car with 4 seats, RWD, and a tire-shredding V8.

edit: Bad segway. But I want a black '69 Camaro or a new one that looks like it.

Is that GM kool-aid tasty? Good Lord, they could order up a few nav systems from Crutchfield and install them--in all 6 Lucernes that they'll sell--at the friggin' stealership.

It's not rocket science. Hell, it isn't even electrical engineering.

I know a lot of people who took last year's severence package who're pretty damn happy they did it while they could! GM is swirling around the bowl...

speeder · speeder's Garage

Oddly enough, Buick makes some darn good cars. Don't they have like the highest JD Powers #s of any car sold? Higher than Lexus? If I'm wrong someone can correct me, but I seem to recall this.

I've considered a used one for a daily driver, granted they're not exiting but I like American cars for *appliance* duty. Used Buicks are dirt cheap and the 3800 engine is fantastic delivering high 20s mpg in a big luxury car.

I would think that Buick would be a big piece in the puzzle of saving the domestic auto industry.

HardDrive · 03-23-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by speeder
Oddly enough, Buick makes some darn good cars. Don't they have like the highest JD Powers #s of any car sold? Higher than Lexus? If I'm wrong someone can correct me, but I seem to recall this.

True. Thats why I even bothered to go look.

Like I said in my original post, the build quality looked excellent. It was just WHAT they had build that concerned me.....

RoninLB · 03-24-2006, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline

edit: Bad segway. But I want a black '69 Camaro or a new one that looks like it.

I've stored and cured a small truck 350 block and steel crank since the early '70s. Experience tells me to eventually build a 350/350 and gearing it to a 4.10 w/4 speed. 350hp is perfect street hp imo.

The '69 is great when nice condition. My bud disassembled and reassembled one for a graduating project at school. Before radar, when the PD had to clock you, this car could snap around side streets faster than a speeding bullet. Big blocks screw up the handling on cars like that imo.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by RoninLB
I've stored and cured a small truck 350 block and steel crank since the early '70s. Experience tells me to eventually build a 350/350 and gearing it to a 4.10 w/4 speed. 350hp is perfect street hp imo.

The '69 is great when nice condition. My bud disassembled and reassembled one for a graduating project at school. Before radar, when the PD had to clock you, this car could snap around side streets faster than a speeding bullet. Big blocks screw up the handling on cars like that imo.

Could not agree more. Give me a mouse motor in one of those, especially since high HP on pump gas is no problemo these days.

strupgolf · 03-24-2006, 01:29 PM

You're right. I'm over 50 and I could care less if there is a NAV system in a car I own. I can read a MAP. In all my years of driving, I cant recall a time when I've been lost. My friend has a NAV system is his new 300M, and he always shows me how it works, but we aren't driving in the amazon, its just Indy.