Buying a Ford vs. buying a Toyota.

HardDrive · 11:55 PM

I'll just tell my tale and let you draw your own conclusions.

Part I
I was interested in the Ford Escape Hybrid, so I hit the dealer, Bill Pierce Ford in Seattle. I start checking out the cars, and notice every car has a sticker that says they are charging $5995 over MSRP.

A nice sales guy (kid really) walks over, and immediately I point out how absurd this is. The Ford website shows all current promotions if you price out a car, and their website showed a price that was nearly $10k less! He kind of smiles and says, "Yeah, it makes it hard on us when people look at the internet." The internet? You mean the F*CKING FORD MOTORS WEBSITE? THAT internet? *SIGH*.

We test drive the car (nice vehicle, btw, but underpowered). We wrap it up, and he wants me to come inside the dealer so his manager can 'get me a price'. My morbid curiosity gets the best of me and I agree. We sit down in some dank wood paneled room, and after 10 minutes of making me wait with Michael Bolton playing (is this some kind of Abu Graib technique their trying?), in comes the sales manger. Big, surly, slicked back hair a55hole. I point out the pricing issue immediately. He looks at me and says, " Well we've gotta eat, ya know. We got costs to cover, but we can talk. When you are ready to move on this, give us a call." And plops a piece of paper in front of me reflecting an offer, WITH the $5995 markup. I leave, never to return.

Part II

I go to Toyota of Seattle. I had contacted them about the new FJ. As soon as one was on the lot, a sales man contacted me. I go and the car is sold (it was sold before it made it off the truck). I go in the dealership, nothing fancy, but nice clean modern showroom. I ask the salesman about prices on any car. " We sell them for the sticker price." I ask about him about promotions or cash back offers. "Hey, if you see a cash back offer, we will honor that. In fact, lets check the system to see if there are cash back offers right now."

And that FJ that everyone is scouring the earth for? They sell them at the stick price with no markup.

Did I mentiong the 2007 Camry looks AWESOME. $31k loaded. Oh yeah....NAVIGATION IS AVAILABLE.

*sigh*

singpilot · 03-27-2006, 05:05 AM

American cars and the dealers that sell them are still stuck in the 1970's.

Is why they will fold soon, forever.

You can't fix stupid.

rbarton · 03-27-2006, 05:15 AM

Have you tried any other Ford dealers? If you haven't bought yet, call around and see if any in your area are willing to sell at the X-plan (employees' friends and family) price. I can get you a PIN if so. This would be around $1500 less than MSRP on the Hybrid. Send me a PM and I'll set you up.

Dealers can vary wildly and some of them are just plain greedy a55holes. I don't know about the Seattle area, but around here you can buy Escape Hybrids at sticker all day long.

Rick

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
I was interested in the Ford

Any story that starts off with that will never end with 'happily ever after'

Tim Hancock · 03-27-2006, 05:47 AM

You could buy a used Toyota with 100K on the clock and it would still last longer than a brand new Ford. After you buy the Toyota, you should stop back at the Ford dealership and rub it in their faces.

Schrup · Schrup's Garage

I'll be buying a new vehicle this summer, probable a Nissan Titan. I won't deal with salesman other than the Internet sales guy. I stopped buy a couple of domestic lots & everyone of them had second sticker mark ups from $2k to $5k, I'm looking to pay no more than a few hundred dollars over invoice before rebates & won't even step on the lot till I have a deal negotiated via email. I did that with my wife's Altima SE & saved $1600.

I did ask one salesman about the $5k mark up over MSRP on the Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie & he explained it was so that when people come in upside down, they can give them more for there trade in to get them in a new truck because the bank won't lend more than the price of the vehicle. What a nice way to drive stupid people further in over their head.

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-27-2006, 07:22 AM

I just deal with the fleet dept if I'm buying a car. Usually a few hundred over invoice, no negotiation, and no hassling.

Worked great for my wife's old Tacoma and both WRXs.

yellowline · 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
You could buy a used Toyota with 100K on the clock and it would still last longer than a brand new Ford.

ROFL! That's if they make it to 100k. Take a look at this site, see how many 20k mile cars Toyota is denying warranty claims on.

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/ownersstories.msnw

BlueSkyJaunte · 03-27-2006, 07:50 AM

Whatever...my mother-in-law is driving a 248,000-mile Sienna.

Tim Hancock · 03-27-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline
ROFL! That's if they make it to 100k. Take a look at this site, see how many 20k mile cars Toyota is denying warranty claims on.

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/ownersstories.msnw

Wow, I honestly had not heard about any of this. My '99 Tacoma 4x4 has been absolutely trouble free (unlike my previous POS Dodge dakota). I have friends with older camries and pickup who have very high miles w/out problems also.

I guess this means Toyotas have joined the ranks of UAW built vehicles? Thanks for the link.

Dantilla · 03-27-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HardDrive
We sit down in some dank wood paneled room, and after 10 minutes of making me wait

Ah, the waiting game.

Last time a dealership wanted to play the waiting game with me, I went outside, plopped down the tailgate of a pick-up right in front of the showroom, pulled an AutoTrader out of my back pocket, and started making calls on other vehicles with my cell phone.

Amazing how quickly the salesman appeared, ready to talk. I told him I found some others to look at, and left.

IROC · IROC's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline
ROFL! That's if they make it to 100k.

Sorry, but no one's going to buy that. Toyotas might not be the most exciting cars/trucks in the world, but very few "learned" people are going to try and bash them on reliability/longevity. They simply run forever. I've owned seven of them and they have all been extremely reliable. Two of them had over 165k miles on them when I sold them and they were *still* reliable.

Mike

Jims5543 · 03-27-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline
ROFL! That's if they make it to 100k. Take a look at this site, see how many 20k mile cars Toyota is denying warranty claims on.

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/ownersstories.msnw

News to me too. I ONLY buy Toyota trucks for my fleet. I have sold 2 of my retires trucks to family members and they have 250K miles on them and run great and problem free.

I just bought 2 brand new Tocama 4X4's and do not plan on replacing them for 5-6 years and/or 200K miles.

I have bought used ones in the past with 70-100K miles on them and drove them to 200K problem free as well.

I have tried Fords and Mazdas and they just do not hold up.

Tervuren · Tervuren's Garage

Our family has used various large vans over the years they have been our vehichle of choice. The Extended Ford 350 has been unbeatable in reliability, and taking abuse. We've had these things on totaly unpaved blasted from rock roads in the rockie mounts, loaded over rated capicity, towed things, carried people, etc. We bought our last one used from a rental company. We don't drive the miles we used to, so its not over the 200K range yet. Never in the years we've had them, have we ever had to bring them into a shop for more then oil and tires. Whatever Ford's econmy cars may be, their big vans are awesome.

My Grandmother, found the oppisite experience when looking at a new car btw, ended up with a Ford.
Try another Ford dealer, or look for a used one.

And on the Toyota bashing, they builds great cars for the most part, and where the only brand other then Porsche I was seriously looking at buying after my 944 was totaled. I still went with another 944 though...

Mulhollanddose · 03-27-2006, 09:39 AM

American labor unions must be crushed; buy imported...It is the only way to force American car manufacturers to provide a better product for a cheaper price.

yellowline · 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IROC
Sorry, but no one's going to buy that. Toyotas might not be the most exciting cars/trucks in the world, but very few "learned" people are going to try and bash them on reliability/longevity. They simply run forever. I've owned seven of them and they have all been extremely reliable. Two of them had over 165k miles on them when I sold them and they were *still* reliable.

Mike

True, it is hyperbole. But it also makes a myth of the mantra that Toyota is flawless, bulletproof, invincible, graced by God, on and on. I've heard stories of dealer arrogance and "the factory does no wrong-it's your fault!" accusations.

I just don't like Toyota business practices-what can I say. A Prius with the AC on that gets lower gas mileage than my 944 is outrageous. Yet all we hear about is "40 MPG!" Their advertising is deceptive, and they get away with it because a percentage of the market will buy them every time.

The media does have a hand in this. A Highlander in Consumer Reports received a score of good for emergency lane change. An Equinox did 1 mph less and received a "fair" rating. There's the gray area of how the car "felt," but they even distort on numerical measurements. Obviously, the difference between a good and mediocre car is 1 MPG, or 1 cubic foot, or 1 mph more on a test that I'm not sure those monkeys are qualified to perform.

As always, the "learned" buyer needs to do his research and not take a nameplate for granted.

yellowline · 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
American labor unions must be crushed; buy imported...It is the only way to force American car manufacturers to provide a better product for a cheaper price.

Mul, it's illegal to disband a unionized industry. I think the union should have the foresight to sacrifice, but it's difficult to walk away from the good life. You wouldn't take a 50% pay cut easily, would you?

Instead of starving the misbehaving child, how about teaching it right and wrong?

HardDrive · 03-27-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowline
ROFL! That's if they make it to 100k. Take a look at this site, see how many 20k mile cars Toyota is denying warranty claims on.

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/ownersstories.msnw

The posts in that post are pretty old. It seems like this effected the older 3.0 engines.

Moreover, this post was not about the quality of the autos.

I like Ford cars. If I was going to buy american, it would likely be a Ford.

legion · 03-27-2006, 12:15 PM

I had the opposite experience when I went new car shopping. The domestic dealers were willing to deal, the import dealers expected you to pay sticker with a steep markup on MSRP. I think it depends on the dealer, not the manufacturer.

72doug2,2S · 72doug2,2S's Garage

Owned a Ford, bought two Toyotas after that experience. Ford is gay. I will say the Toyota dealers are arrogant and don't dicker with the sales price. OTOH, they are a better product than Ford, Oh and their not gay.