Are Conservatives Crazy...? - Page 2

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pbs911
I guess all conservatives are extremists and the world has no place for them. I think Britain would agree.

Well, I don't recognize the man on the right in the drawing, but the others were liberals, not conservatives in any way, shape, or form.

Jefferson, was in fact a founder and key proponent of what became the Democrat Party, which would have been similar to today's Libertarian Party. Franklin was unafiliated as far as I know, but was certainly no conservative. Washington was a federalist, and could be thought of as a lineal antecedant of the modern left wing in the sense that he favored a centralized state, but to a much lesser extent than did his young friend, Alexander Hamilton.

Come back to me when you know more history, it's pretty obvious that you know nothing of the founders of the country.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flatbutt
So rather than an ongoing occupying(SP?) imperialism, you're saying that imposing a certain set of rules or exercising a degree of fiscal influence upon a nation equates to imperialism? Intriguing thought.

So by extension if we were to "impose" democracy on a nation by forcefully deposing a dictator, then leave, we have exercised imperialism on that nation?

Since any nation that has been invaded and occupied by the US government hasn't simply been left in toto, but has had a government forced upon it that's favorable to US government interests, the answer is yes, that's imperialism.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1967 R50/2
Ya know... if we really wanted to read "Lew Rockwell" we would go to his site. This reposting of OP/Ed pieces is lame. And it is Op/Ed...not an article, just a spewing of opinion.

Then don't read it. Censor yourself, genius.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Netspeed
Unfortunately, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. There have been periods in our history where we have just sat back and let the world go by and then they all cried when things got out of whack.

That's a statement based on propaganda. The British spent millions of dollars (Pounds Sterling if you wish) on paid propaganda to steer America towards World War One and Two.

The notion that the european powers "cried" because America was uninvolved is simply myth. What Britain, who in 1939 controlled 1/6th of the earth's land mass, was cannon fodder to enable them to invade and totally conquer Germany, an industrial power house that England had been deathly afraid of since the turn of the 20th century.

In fact, after learning quite a bit about the world prior to World War One, I have to say that America should have remained clear of that war, or if it had to enter it on one side or the other, should have sided with the Germans against the French and British.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noah
So is your grammar.

People who live in glass houses...

Noah, so petty. Please try to remain an adult in your statements in threads where I write.

Jamie79SC · 03:44 PM

Fastpat,

I believe it's Madison on the right.

Double check on Jefferson founding the Democrat Party. My copy of American Sphinx is at home right now, but that's not how I remember it.

Edit -

Oops, I am mistaken, Jefferson helped found the Democratic Republican party to which the modern Democratic party owes its beginnings.

Netspeed · 03-30-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
In fact, after learning quite a bit about the world prior to World War One, I have to say that America should have remained clear of that war, or if it had to enter it on one side or the other, should have sided with the Germans against the French and British.

Why?

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat

Come back to me when you know more history, it's pretty obvious that you know nothing of the founders of the country.

The names associated with the political parties and their ideologies have reveresed themselve since our founding fathers.

If those depicted are Liberals, explain why is it that todays Liberals are trying to take away the rights they granted in the Constitution?

BTW, masters in Political Science, Summa Cum Laude. Oh, but the college is Liberal and they just hand out the diplomas because it wouldn't be fair not to provide everyone with a degree. I forgot.

Jamie79SC · 03-30-2006, 04:04 PM

Todays LIBERALS are trying to take away rights granted in the Constitution?

Look, I can't bring myself to call them Conservatives (that would give Conservatives a bad name) but I sure can't call the current administration Liberals.

Oh, wait, that's not who you're talking about. Well, the only sector from which I feel my Constitutional rights threatened is G.W. Bush and his gang.

Jamie79SC · 03-30-2006, 04:05 PM

Seriously, where and when did you go to school PBS?

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie79SC
That's the way history gets written or interpreted I guess.

I have a hard time believing that we had ANY business in WWI and any one who thinks we had nothing to do with the causes WWII just didn't study the geo-politics of the 1920s and 30s, especially in the Pacific.

I'm not a dyed in the wool isolationist, but since 1812, this country has gone out and found more trouble around the world than ever came to us.

You are correct on the historical imperatives the US government has been involved in. The Pulitzer newspapers wanted US involvement in the Spanish American War, the Hearst newspapers encouraged joining World War One. All a direct heritage of the Lincoln years.

Isolationism is what America should strive for in international relations. This has nothing to do with trade, overseas travel, or visits to America from foreigners. It only relates to not involving ourselves, or allowing our government to involve itself for mercantilist interests in the affairs of other countries.

Jamie79SC · 03-30-2006, 04:13 PM

Oh crap. There goes my slightly left of center pragmatist rep; I've been endorsed by FastPat.

Does that make me a full fledged bleeding heart, lefty, pinko, commie now?

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie79SC
The Russians would have eventually beaten him. Hitler is one of the few exceptions in my book of not going out of our way to fight a war. He was a bloody SOB with the means and desire to do terrible things to many people. At the same time, it was Europe's problem more than it was ours.

Believe it or not Hitler once thought that the US was a natural ally to Nazi Germany (perish the thought!!!)

Exactly, eventually the Germans would have had to bring all or most of their troops out of western europe to defend their eastern border from the Red hordes. Even then, it would have been difficult for them to stop the Soviets.

Some people forget, or never answer, how the Germans financed their military adventures. Since trade from many places was cut off by the British, they had to rely on internal resources, and what they could steal from those countries they invaded. Every time they invaded a country, they robbed the national treasury of that country. Socialism, national socialism in this case, spends more than it takes in in all cases, Germany was no different. They were always one country's national treasury away from economic depression during their 12 years in power.

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie79SC
Seriously, where and when did you go to school PBS?

I don't know if this is sarcasitc of not, but '96, obtained a law degree in '99, and Ca Bar admission the same year. I should have a second Bar card by the end of this year.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pbs911
I don't know if this is sarcasitc of not, but '96, obtained a law degree in '99, and Ca Bar admission the same year. I should have a second Bar card by the end of this year.

Looks like you may be due a refund on the history classes you took, or take them again, this time to learn something.

Jamie79SC · 03-30-2006, 04:31 PM

No I wasn't being sarcastic, I was specifically curious as to where you studied.

FastPat, even when you're right, you can be such an a$$.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pbs911
The names associated with the political parties and their ideologies have reveresed themselve since our founding fathers.

If those depicted are Liberals, explain why is it that todays Liberals are trying to take away the rights they granted in the Constitution?

BTW, masters in Political Science, Summa Cum Laude. Oh, but the college is Liberal and they just hand out the diplomas because it wouldn't be fair not to provide everyone with a degree. I forgot.

Hmmm, you should also know why today's liberals aren't liberals at all then.

Mercantilism and socialism aren't new. One can be a conservative and fully support socialism, in Russia today the communists are the conservatives, the liberals are the freedom advocates.

One must know the full meaning of terms, including the Chronology of those terms over history.

fastpat · 03-30-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie79SC
No I wasn't being sarcastic, I was specifically curious as to where you studied.

FastPat, even when you're right, you can be such an a$$.

That's right, Jamie. A while ago, I was gentle to these folks, talking them through these things, holding their hands, never a harsh word.

Wasted my time.

Today, I suffer fools and idiots not one second. If they don't know their history, then that's a problem they need to correct, tout de suite.

Otherwise, I'm going to intellectually dropkick their ass all over the place. I spent the time finding out these things, several degrees later, and even more years of using my formal education to continue my real education, was time well spent. I expect the same from others.

Fair, no. Life isn't fair.

Superman · 03-30-2006, 04:45 PM

No Jamie. Pat rejects liberals as viciously as conservatives. Liberals think government is a necessary and useful tool. Libertarians think gubmint is an evil to be avoided for everything except perhaps national defense.

Many otherwise reasonably intelligent people have been fooled into concluding that liberals are attacking their freedoms and conservatives can be relied upon to defend them. Sad. If they looked at history, the'd get a different view. If they looked at what's happening right now, they'd get a different view. If they looked up the definitions, they'd get a different view. The only way to get the view they've got is to let someone else do the thinking and concluding.

yellowline · 03-30-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fastpat
That's right, Jamie. A while ago, I was gentle to these folks, talking them through these things, holding their hands, never a harsh word.

Wasted my time.

Today, I suffer fools and idiots not one second. If they don't know their history, then that's a problem they need to correct, tout de suite.

Otherwise, I'm going to intellectually dropkick their ass all over the place. I spent the time finding out these things, several degrees later, and even more years of using my formal education to continue my real education, was time well spent. I expect the same from others.

Fair, no. Life isn't fair.

Remember: decaf and meds tomorrow, OK?

You do know your history Pat, I'll give you that. Too bad sometimes you're stuck in it. And on this board, I'm one who agrees with you more than most.