Crosswind landing video - amazing

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

There's been several posts of a 777 (and 747SP) crosswind landing video .

Here's an amalgamated quote that describe the video:

"Boeing factory test pilots verifying the demonstrated crosswind landing limits on the 777 and the 747SP. The engineers make educated guesses, but then the test crews have to go actually prove the numbers.

The engineers design the landing gear system, goes up for a design review, gets manufactured, the maintenance people install it, ops check it, then jack and retract the system; but then Boeing test crews have to actually prove the design before the landing gear sideload limits gets etched in stone in the -1 flight manual.

So they sneak off to Brazil to do these tests at a certain remote BAF base famous for its continual atrocious crosswinds...

This is some good piloting by the test pilots in getting these planes down. For some people it looks totally unnatural for an aircraft that size doing that, and for others it's a thing of beauty.

If you haven't seen these it's pretty cool to watch planes of this size crabbing in on a landing. "

Jims5543 · 04-07-2006, 08:28 AM

Holy crap!! That was nuts.

I laughed when I thought its like drifting in the sky.

Cool video.

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

I never new a plane could fly sidways. The 3rd and 4th pretty are amazing. Thanks for the clip.

Netspeed · 04-07-2006, 08:36 AM

That was amazing!! Is the landing gear that strong or does it rotate slightly ala the B-52?

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

No, it does not rotate, they are testing side loads.

Here's a pic of a B-52 (actualy, it's an XB-52, notice the greenhouse cockpict) showing a cool feature of the main landing gear - they could rotate up to 20 deg so the plane could go straight down the runway - at an angle.

speeder · speeder's Garage

This has actually been posted here before. I would think that those landing could just be avoided, but what do I know.

Netspeed · 04-07-2006, 08:45 AM

It's just amazing to watch that gear handle the initial landing and then have the plane rotate through it.

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

More great movies here - including a great in-cockpit ejection after a failed split-S, hairy landings, high speed/low level, etc.

http://www.crazyaviation.com/englishmovies.htm

enjoy!

Danskman · 04-07-2006, 08:59 AM

Wow. That is impressive. For you professional pilots on the board... of 100 random commercial pilots working today, how many do you think have the skills to pull off those landings? 100%? 98%?

Netspeed · 04-07-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danskman
Wow. That is impressive. For you professional pilots on the board... of 100 random commercial pilots working today, how many do you think have the skills to pull off those landings? 100%? 98%?

I'm hoping they say 100%

rouxroux · 04-07-2006, 02:37 PM

Living just north of BAFB, it's a blast watching the B-52's come over practicing in the x-wind!

Joeaksa · 04-07-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danskman
Wow. That is impressive. For you professional pilots on the board... of 100 random commercial pilots working today, how many do you think have the skills to pull off those landings? 100%? 98%?

The thing is that we are not subjected to this type of situation often. I would hope that at least 50% could handle it, while hoping even more than the rest of them could realize it and land somewhere else, with a runway into the wind.

Still remember a medivac flight in the late '80. Landed at dawn in Berlin Tegel with a heart for transplant on board. They had said mixed ice and snow on the runway but no one had landed in the last 5-7 hours and no one knew how slick it was.

Landed and we went sliding sideways at 140 mph and it did not look good for a while. Self peservation won and I pulled the drag chute (Older model Learjets had them "just in case" and it pulled us straight and slowed us enough to get some braking.

Got a lot of my grey hair that morning...

Danskman · 04-07-2006, 03:54 PM

Thanks, Joe. While disappointed, I am not surprised by your answer. A situation like this would be very rare, and I doubt would be covered in the simulators. Pilot skill and reasoning in those situations rules above all else. Not every pilot or doctor gets straight A's.

Joeaksa · 04-07-2006, 04:58 PM

Mike,

The way the plane was flown in the videos is on the limit or beyond. Not many people, pilots included, want to do this with an airplane to really see what it can do, then hope they can get it back in hand and recover. That said, they do this to find out what the limit is, then back it down just a bit for safety.

A lot of it is a "seat of the pants" thing and you either have it or you do not but the rest is just good judgement and training. Todays airplanes are so forgiving in many areas that they will let the crew do a lot that could not have been done years ago. Flight test pilots are still killed from time to time testing the envelope, so its not something to take lightly.

We do unusual attitudes (upside down) and all sorts of emergencies in the simulator, but extreme crosswind landings is not the norm. They hope you will find a runway situated more into the wind I guess!

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

It depends how comfortable you get in the seat. When i first started flying commercially, there was no way i could do half of what they are doing in the videos, thank goodness there was a captain besides me who more seat time. Now, it happens alot, and i can handle most situations like that. Of course not at the exteremes of the videos, but we do have some very windy/ crosswind days we encounter in everyday line flying. Most days like that are extremely gusty, and not a steady wind, which makes it a very wild ride on final. We have had several flights where people have clapped loudly and yelled cheers after we rolled out, and just about every one of them makes sure and tells us 'thank you' when they deplane!

450knotOffice · 450knotOffice's Garage

Thanks for the video Don. We had pretty good crosswinds today in SJC. We were landing on 12L and the wind was blowing straight across the runway at about 25 to 30 knots or so. On about a four mile final the wind was showing about 45 knots on the FMS's. Fun approach.

cashflyer · 04-08-2006, 08:43 AM

Keep in mind that part of the skillset of a professional pilot (or any professional - doctor, racecar driver, etc) is competent decision making. Such as knowing when a landing situation is beyond your skill level, and making the decision to divert to an alternate runway.

Although I will also say that there is considerable pressure placed on pilots to "get the job done"... to make the schedule and not have a jet bound for SAN landing at LAX. There has been more than one pilot lose a job for doing the right thing.

Joeaksa · 04-08-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cashflyer
Such as knowing when a landing situation is beyond your skill level, and making the decision to divert to an alternate runway.

Although I will also say that there is considerable pressure placed on pilots to "get the job done"... to make the schedule and not have a jet bound for SAN landing at LAX. There has been more than one pilot lose a job for doing the right thing.

Or alternate area on the airport. I fly a WW2 era taildragger for fun. Several times have asked the tower to approve my landing on a taxiway that faced into the wind and landed at my home airport when the wind exceeded the limitations on the airplane.

Hate to say it but as well I have known several pilots who lost their job for doing "the right thing" but not what the bean counters felt was correct. In the end its up to the PIC to do what they feel is correct and safe, then have to put up with what the ground pounders in the office say about it.

BlueSideUp · 04-08-2006, 11:37 PM

Wow Joe, I can only imagine how close those tip tanks must have been to the ground sliding sideways in an early Lear! I flew a 24D once and it was pretty sensitive to winds.

I think the key to remember is that normal pilots do not look for reasons to use 100% of their skills. The key is to not put yourself in a situation where you end up using "everything you've got".

I've witnessed poor technique and absolutely amazing feats of aviation when it comes to crosswind landings. The smaller jets are difficult because the wingtips can be very close to the ground during the landing flare (12" or less in the case of a CRJ or Citation X). The larger jets are difficult because of the low slung engines.

If some desk pilot wants to fire me for making a safety related decision based on my experience and judgement I don't think I want to be working for them. My wife noticed some gray hairs on my head the other day, I can guess where each and every one came from.

Dantilla · 04-09-2006, 03:38 PM

I know a corporate pilot who was chastised for not landing at an airport with a runway too short for take-off minimums, while flying former President Ford.

Mr. Ford later thanked him for his decision.