ahHH! speeding ticket!

[air-cool-me]

What's a "golden eagle 2"???? Laser? Radar? A TSD device?

idk... it was on the ticket.

my guess is radar

[DavidI]

Originally posted by pbs911
Most patrol / traffic cops have the easiest job in the world. Working 3-4 days a week, with mandatory overtime, and 3-4 days off. Every job should be so easy and so well paid.

I don't buy that "they put their lives on the line" BS either. When is the last time anyone heard of a cop being the victim of a crime? Real people are the victim of many, many more crimes than the police. Cops are also the ONLY citizens permitted to carry a weapon of their choice nationwide. The ordinary people are left defenseless, without immunity and without a paid legal defense. Does anyone really think the cop is more at danger in a neighborhhod like Compton or Watts than the ordinary person? Last I looked, many more regular people were victims of crimes than cops in these areas.

pbs911, please go on a ride along with me in South Central LA. As long as you are not a convicted felon and have no outstanding warrants, I can make it happen. You will see first hand what it is like. I see that you are moving soon, it would be my good bye present to you. I am not being sarcastic in any way, I am sincere in my invitation. Last week, we had one of our own shot and killed. Last week, three of my cops were injured trying to arrest a guy high on PCP. I have been shot at, stabbed, involved in too many fights to count. Have you?

I am not going to say that it is dangerous at all. In fact, it may be safer than whatever your occupation is. Come on out and see. PM me with your info and I'll arrange everything. Several guys from the BBS have come out with me.

I guarantee a good time, David

[Jeff Higgins]

That would be an interesting ride for sure, David. I'm sure I have no idea what a day in the life of a cop is like. I'm kind of suspecting that day varies wildly with whatever department or duties an officer is assigned, however. A day spent downtown in a patrol car must be far different than a day in a highway patrol car at a radar speed trap. Unfortunately the latter are the ones most of us get to meet. Most of us never break anything other than a traffic law, so that is our only exposure to police. Even you must admit that enforcement varies tremendously with the cop and the situation. I think that is where a lot of the frustration and resentment lies. The real trial on traffic matters very much happens right there at the side of the road.

Another aspect of the "ride along" that must be considered is the simple fact that the cop is being watched. He is going to be on his best behavior, acting like the guys on Adam 12 or something. What really matters is how he behaves when it is down to just him and the suspect, his word against the suspect's, on how things went down. Of course a ride along will never see any questionable behavior.

I have been harrassed by police in the past. It is a very helpless feeling, knowing that no matter what you say or do you lose. While I still have a great deal of respect for the profession, I have met too many individual officers that do not deserve my respect. The "come along and see for yourself" invitation is a somewhat clever ruse, in my opinion, to try to generate some positive PR. The best way to do that is to treat citizens with respect one on one, when no one is watching. Until all cops under all conditions can do that, no number of ride alongs will change people's minds. Too many of us have had bad experiences.

[DavidI]

The ride along is no ruse at all. I will show someone what police work is like with "the bark on." It is 50% boredom, 45% routine, and 5% sheer terror. I can show you first hand what the aftermath of a driveby with an AK47 looks like. You can see first hand the despair in the mother's face as we tell her, or she sees for herself, that her "baby" had half his head torn away and brain matter is splattered over the cold street. To say it is a "ruse" is childish and naive. Come on out, I'll introduce you to the reality of what we see and deal with daily, David

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by djmcmath

The problem is that we, as the taxpayers, don't want them doing harrassing innocent drivers. So how do we feed back to their bosses that they're wasting our money? How do we, as the driving populace, explain to the Police Department what laws we want enforced?

Politically it's a money issue to gov't and insurance companies.

The Nat'l Motorist Ass has ongoing advocacy for motorists rights. From speed bumps to speed limits they seem to be the best organized in the US. Membership is about $25/yr for a monthly newsletter of ongoing issues from radar detector law to camera ticket law. They've won a few lately about the illegal reduced switching speed at camera monitored traffic lights and that they cause a noticeable increase of accidents at the intersections.

Montana residents have it good.

[SlowToady]

Where do you live SlowToady?

McHenry County, but the speeding ticket was in Indiana. Was coming home from getting Porsche parts:-D I was just out in your neck of the woods around the 31st and 1st, I stopped at ISU for a night to see some friends.

The only cops I really seem to like are the ones I've met outside of their profession, ie, when they weren't being cops. All the ones I've encountered doing their jobs have been, quite frankly, complete *******s. I'm sure I've relayed the story here a time or two, but the first time had me at gunpoint by ~10 cops while my car was being searched. I'm 5'9 and 147 pounds, dressed, not the type of guy you'd typically be afraid of. Yet there I was staring down the barrel of a 12 gauge shotgun, AR-15 and a HK USP. I got pulled over because I had a license plate light out on the 944. After it was over I asked for the original officer's badge number and he not-so-politely refused and walked back to his car.

I understand that LEOs have a difficult and potentially dangerous job, but also feel like there are too many that aren't up to the task and so instead of doing something constructive, like arresting drug dealers, gang bangers and murders, they decide to sit on the side of the road and write 10mph over speeding tickets all day.

Stay safe out there David.

Slow~

[RoninLB]

Riding with the FD is best imo. If your bud is hooked up with a busy house you gotta know how to quickly wipe and flush.

Big PD action around here is doing roof patrols in the city with the housing PD on the 4th of July.

[djmcmath]

David, your particular life as a police officer is somewhat atypical of the stuff we're complaining about. A ride-along with one of Niantic's "finest" would involve a lot of time at the local sandwich shop. Crime in Niantic is .... well, let me put this in perspective. Once, about 12 years ago, the garage next door to my apartment was broken into. People still talk about that event. I suspect the majority of this little town thinks an AK-47 is some kind of new computer.

So, in lieu of real crimes to protect the people from, the cops speed through the 25 zone (it's unnaturally slow), then pull us over for following them. They can't find real drunk drivers (maybe the talk they had with the one bar owner in town worked), so they pull over guys who missed a turn signal and harrass them for half an hour.

Niantic is not like SoCal. I'd wager that even much of SoCal is not like South Central LA.

[pbs911]

Originally posted by DavidI
The ride along is no ruse at all. I will show someone what police work is like with "the bark on." It is 50% boredom, 45% routine, and 5% sheer terror. I can show you first hand what the aftermath of a driveby with an AK47 looks like. You can see first hand the despair in the mother's face as we tell her, or she sees for herself, that her "baby" had half his head torn away and brain matter is splattered over the cold street. To say it is a "ruse" is childish and naive. Come on out, I'll introduce you to the reality of what we see and deal with daily, David

The despair is in the face of the people, not the police. The people suffer, not the police. The police are provided special privileges to defend themselves. The people are the ones who are left defenseless and suffer as the victims of crime.

If I come along for a ride can I carry my handgun? Can I carry the special police issue firearms? Will I be immune from my actions? Will the tax payers pick up my legal defense? Will the court provided me with special rights and privileges not available to the ordinary citizens to conduct my job? After all, every person should be entitled to the protections and privileges as the police. Better yet, why can't I protect myself to the same level as the police in their absence?

I am very familiar with the antics of the South Central police. A close relative of mine was on the patrol force for 10+ years. Another close family friend is a former sergeant in a Los Angeles police unit. I have heard many stories. His son an officer in another Los Angeles county. My perception is based not upon news clippings, but from words from the horse’s mouth. Each of these have told me if there was a shooting, they would be sure to take their time to respond. This would ensure the shooting was completed before their arrival, ensuring their own their own safety.

Do police get harmed or killed in the line of duty? Of course, but the people are in greater risk of being harmed than the police.

Thank you for the offer of a ride alone, but why do I need the police for a ride along since I can experience these things on my own? By your own accounting, the people, not the police, are the victims of crime. Police arrive after for the clean up. And therein lies both the problem and the answer. The streets are no more dangerous to the people than the police. If fact, the police are more protected since they are less likely to be the target of a crime. Criminals know police are armed and trained, unlike the general population who have been stripped of their rights of defense and the presumption of guilt and left without any defense except a police department who has no obligation to protect.

The parties with the obligation to protect the citizens from crime have failed in their duties permitting the criminal element to control. Laws are written and enacted, but instead of being enforced, cops are more concerned with writing traffic tickets to generate revenue. The 50% boredom should be used to prevent and solve crimes. The police should not be bored. There is no absence of crime. The boredom is the lack of effort to "Serve and Protect" a standard which the US Supreme Court has held does not apply to the police force. This leaves the police as little more than a revenue generating machine and after-the-fact crime scene investigators.

Please understand this is not a personal attack. I am sure that you are a fine officer who takes his job seriously and does the best he can. The problem is with the political structure of the police department which has rendered the structure of the police department impendent in the enforcement of the laws and turned it into a money generating entity.

[Jeff Higgins]

David, give me a break. Calling me "childish" adds nothing to this conversation. As many other have pointed out, your experience as a big city cop is probably not consistant with suburban or rural law enforcement.

And I stand by my assertion that cops will be on their best behavior with a ride along. I followed a state patrol officer for over ten miles one day at speeds approaching 110 mph. I followed him right to his lunch date, to which he was clearly late. I challenged everyone at the table on this and they blew me off. Would a ride along get to see that?

Recently here in the Northwest a young man was forcibly removed from a car parked on the side of the street. He looked like a car theft suspect. The cops beat the hell out of him. It was an expensive car parked in a ritzy neighborhood. The kid did not look like he "fit" - he was black. Turns out it was his dad's car in front of his own home. Would a ride along get to see that?

I was stopped on my motorcycle once; obstensibly because the cop couldn't tell if my tabs were up to date (I thought that was why they are color coded). I was right outside of his driver's window in the adjacent lane on the freeway. When he saw that were in fact up to date, he did not simply let me go. I stood on the side of the freeway for 45 minutes enduring this guy's shakedown. He kept digging for something, anything at all. Would a ride along get to see that?

Anyway, I could go on and on. A ride-along will never be exposed to these realities and we both know that. So yes, at that level, it is no more than a PR ruse. "See how nice we are? See how respectful of citizens we are? We just don't understand what people could possibly complain about..." Those of us that have seen, or have been on the receiving end of, disrespectful or abusive cops know better.

[DavidI]

I have no response that would make sense to you. I can offer the ride, not in an attempt to make you my friend, recruit you, put a smile on your face, but to show you how police work is performed in South Central LA. There are a great deal of great men and women puting their lives on the line for complete strangers. I truly believe that 98% of the people in that, and any area for that matter, are good, hard-working people trying to live the American dream. The other 2% are the violent predators that victimize the good people. Sometimes, good people do bad things when they lose control of their emotions. We deal with them too.

I respect your opinions about the differences among "good" cops and "bad" cops. I am a very assertive police supervisor and do everything within my power to root out the "bad" cops. I am not refering to the criminals wearing badges because we go after them with a vengeance.

There is nothing that I can write to change your mind, nor do I want to. Your mind is made up the cops are bad, power hungry, violent individuals who enjoy nothing more than causing you unwarranted grief and costing you money in tickets where they clearly lied about your driving habits. I understand that. On the other hand, I am an optimist that looks for the good in people. I hope that one day, you need the police for some kind of help and a "good" cop comes out and helps you out in a courteous, friendly manner. That way you can see the other side of us.

On another note, someone wrote that their cop relatives told them that they take their time to get to shooting calls to make sure it was over by the time they got there. I would call that cop a coward who has no business serving the public. Our job is the protection of life first, even if the bad guy is the gunshot victim. I could not hold my crew back from rolling in to that call if I wanted, nor would I even attempt.

Stay safe, David (The offer still stands for the ride along. I will not hold back or change the way I treat people or handle calls. JackO came out with me and we had a great time. In fact, we rolled Code 3 (lights and siren) to a stabbing call. As I was driving, I was getting tips from a true pro about apexes and braking!) How's that for a connection?

[island911]

I enjoy you posts, David. Though, I believe that you sell others short, with the implication that a cops work is soooo much more difficult/dangerous than any others. I'm thinking, firefighters, undertakers, doctors, zoo-keepers. ..

So anyways, consider how it sounds when someone says "cops often power-trip" . .. and your response is "yeah but, we have a tough job. . .. you should see how tough." It's like you are justifing bad behavior with "it's a tough job."

[86 911]

David, I'd be more than happy to go on a ride one day if no one else takes up the offer . Still wish you were in SF though. I think it would be pretty neat to go on one.

[DavidI]

Originally posted by island911

So anyways, consider how it sounds when someone says "cops often power-trip" . .. and your response is "yeah but, we have a tough job. . .. you should see how tough." It's like you are justifing bad behavior with "it's a tough job."

Island, I will never discount the fact that some cops allow the power to go to their heads, at least initially. It is the job of us supervisor, and the veteran cops, to keep them in check. That does not negate the fact that the public has the ability to formally file a complaint if they feel that the service provided was less than satisfactory. In the "old" days, those complaints were not given much weight. However, we give them considerable weight. If I had an officer working for me and several complaints were filed regarding discourtesy, I would correct the behavior of the cops through mandated training, written reprimands, and possibly suspension without pay. We serve the public and must remain diligent in fostering that relationship. The only way police can effectively do the job is through the coorperation and support of the public.

I am off my soapbox......David

[Jeff Higgins]

David, I've given you the wrong impression. It's my fault. I only chose these incidents to point out some negative experiences I have had myself, seen on the news, and heard from others. The vast majority of my experience with cops has been very positive. I do have a great deal of respect for what you folks do, and I try to maintain that respect for the profession as a whole even in the face of these experiences. Any time I find myself dealing with an officer I go in assuming he is deserving of my respect, and I'm rarely dissapointed. But, sometimes I am.

It's never been bad enough to warrent filing a formal complaint. It's usually some arrogant and disrespectful attitude; a very nebulous thing that would be impossible to "prove" to whoever investigates. As you point out, that "whoever" is another cop anyway. That in itself must filter out the vast majority of complaints. And again, your department and experiences may very well be atypical. The integrity you display in following up on these is commendable. Does that mean all departments excercise the same diligence? I get the impression not.

Face it; your profession has a serious PR problem. It would be a very easy answer within law enforcement circles to shrug it off as an uninformed citizenry that does not understand what you do. While I'm sure that is a factor in it, it is certainly not the whole story. Mainstream, average, contributing, honest members of society do not make up their negative experiences just for something to talk about. They happen, we remember them, and feel helpless against them. The ball is in your court to fix that. Ride-alongs, while possibly informative and entertaining to whoever gets to go along, will never do that. A fundemental change of some kind that would ensure honest citizens no longer get hassled would. You have a very long ways to go on that front.

[rcm]

It's closer to 140 a year. 34 for 2006 so far.

http://www.odmp.org/year.php

granted not all died from shootings...

Originally posted by RoninLB
"they put their lives on the line"


last time I looked at historical records there are around 50 PD killed per year and about 100 FD killed per year.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by pwd72s
What's a "golden eagle 2"???? Laser? Radar? A TSD device?
More info please...

It's not the golden eagle 2 that I'd be worried about - it's the Spread-eagle-6000-TASER unit that worries me....

Oh, and a couple of years ago, I got pulled over for expired registration (wasn't expired - but I never got the stickers from the DMV -grrr - ). Anyway, the cop sitting on the side of the road went into "HOT PURSUIT" mode as soon as he saw me. (His partner must have been using binoculars to check the plates). So by the time he catches up to me, there is smoke/steam billowing out of the hood of his car. My first thought - whatever I did wrong, (I wasn't speeding) I had a snowball's chance in hell to get out of it...

Apparently, in his over-enthusiastic burst of speed to catch an average Joe driving an average Joe Subaru, he overheated his car. So in the end, my ticket won't even cover 1/4 the cost of fixing his squad car. Nice move, Mr. Occifer!

-Z.

[Rikao4]

David be safe,
going court this afternoon to pay. Not a bad stop..I was speeding, 80 in a 70 , forgot the Ins. papers.. this could have been ugly..tow and more..his comment.
you drive a nice P. and if you don't have ins. your foolish, have a nice day..which I did.
Rika

[legion]

Filing a formal complaint in my area would make me a marked man. I have a friend who was hit by a cop car. The tapes in the squad car and at the intersection somehow got lost, the accident report twisted the facts around to say that my friend caused the accident. Every encounter I've had with the local police has been contentious at best. I've been nothing but respectful, but I've been held as long as 2 hours while a cop finds something to write me a ticket for when the original reason for pulling me over does not pan out. (I've had bumper heights measured; I've been made to test all of the external lights on my car, including high-beams during the day.) My point is, local cops and state troopers in my area project and image of "I can do whatever I want and there is nothing you can do about it." Because of my friend's experience, I've seen that they can all come together to cover someone's @$$ when one of their own does screw up and is at risk of getting in trouble.

[Tobra]

I would encourage everyone who has a bad experience with an abusive officer to report it. I did, I flipped the bird at a cop in an SUV that was sliding sideways towards me in my lane because he took a corner too fast. Realized it was a Nevada state trooper, promptly pulled over, for him to spend 45 minutes berating me at the side of the road in the snow, he said, "You'll live" when I asked if I could get my jacket out of the car. After all that he could not find something to write me a ticket for, because he did not notice the person sitting in the back storage area while he was yelling at me. If I would have been alone, I have no doubt I would have ended up in jail with numerous injuries sustained while "resisting arrest." He ended up giving me a warning for an obscene gesture directed at an officer of the law, or something like that. Wrote a letter to his boss, the judge and the Governor of Nevada. Sent statements from the other 4 folks in the vehicle too. The cop in question got a month off without pay, anger counseling and a reprimand in his employment record. After that, I saw him from time to time, and ALWAYS, waved, said hello and made a point of letting him know I was thinking of him

Overall I respect law officers greatly, but there are some bad apples

I wrote