Sell or Keep another valuable car, advise needed
 

Ok, I'm posting here because the Aston Martin site is not good on this subject.

I have an Aston Martin DB4 which I've owned for 34 years. I bought it for very little, but what it was worth then ($1,750). I've restored it over the years, there isn't a point in time when it was completely fresh. But its in good shape. I make a pretty good living by U.S. standards, and an OK living by Los Angeles standards. Compared to many in Los Angeles, I don't have a big mortgage (about $200k with ten years left to go). But with a daughter in college and a son going to college in 1-1/2 years, every bit of discretionary money that I have is taken up. I need a new barbeque and can't stand the though of putting $500 or more on an ever increasing second mortgage. We live pretty frugally, but still don't have much money at the end of the month.

Anyway, the DB4 is worth some crazy amount like $120k to $150K. I hardly ever drive it (hot, uncomfortable, doesn't like LA traffic, parts are expensive, etc). So I'm debating with gas prices now if I should sell a member of my family. I could use the money for lots of things, credit card debt, pay of second on the house, restucco and double pane window the house, replaster the pool, flooring for the house. But in the end, the money would be gone and so would be the car. I'd probably keep the Targa, cause at least I can get parts for it and its drivable in LA. I just sort of hate the though of seeing another DB4 some day and thinking I USED to own one of those. Six or seven years from now I won't have college tuitions to worry about.

What would you do?
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Nice looking car. It's a very tough call to sell or not.

I think you have to ask yourself, do you get $120 - 150k worth of joy out of the car? If so then keep it. If not your funds may be better used in a place where it brings the most value to your life.

While I would love to have this car, the market is pretty hot right now. I think it would be pretty hard to keep unless you plan on growing your collection.

If it was me, I'd have to replace it with something I'd drive more.

My thoughts exactly...

+2

I'm hearing that the major compelling reason to not sell is concern about regret.
All else - attractive big $, your budget concerns - tells me to sell.
You sound like someone who finds great peace in financial security, being smart with money, the future, etc.
Selling the car would be consistent with that...the way I see it.
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Having said that, while reading your post I had phantom heart tugs from past vehicles I wish I still had.
But when common sense prevails, the tugs/regrets fade.

Damn!...where are those winning Lottery #'s, eh?

Good luck.

+3

You should either enjoy the car frequently or have the money make no material difference in your life. Didn't sound like either to me.

In the grand scheme, +4.

Dissenting point of view here. You said it best yourself-"the money will be gone, and so will the car". The value now isn't "insane"-a 300k Cuda is insane.

That said, the market is likely peaked. And there is the issue of not driving it. That's really the killer-its not good for the car, and it makes it seem like a burden.

The car is a part of your personal history. I'd have a frank conversation w/ the family about it, and see what they think. Make sure they're not pandering, and you can value their imput.

The way I look at it, your son is likely to feel about it the way you do about the Rudge, so it may be worth keeping it around regardless.

Hugh R: "...a son going to college in 1-1/2 years, credit card debt, pay of second on the house, restucco and double pane window the house, replaster the pool, flooring for the house."
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That's what he'd gain.

I noticed you had a DB4 when we were on another topic. I was going to ask if you had pics. BEAUTIFUL. 120-150 grand is a lot of cash. Will you have a problem with capital gains tax? Look into a 1031 exchange to help offset some of that.

*****! I didn't even think about capital gains! I'll be fu(ked if I'm giving the IRS a penny from any proceeds from that car. I used to haul starter motors and flywheels in a backpack on my bicycle in the winter in Boston (uphill both ways with the wind in my face bothways) trying to get that damn thing operational. I better look into that before I make any decisions. I'm in the top tax bracket as it is, and I don't care to hand the IRS 20 grand or more. 1031 exchange, better look into that. I've got a lot of money into the car (nothing compared to the value) but an awful lot of hours over 34 or 35 years.

Thanks for the points guys. Except for my son's college, which I can afford, the rest (except the credit card debt and the second mortgage are results of the daughter's college, and some hopefully non-recurring medical debts). The rest are "wanted" items, stucco, flooring, pool replastering, etc.) Hopefully when the kids are out of school, the cash flow will go the other way (hopefully).

Just ask for cash. Don't pay no stinkin capital gains dude. Also do NOT tell the wife what you sold it for. Just tell her and the IRS that you got $10k, just what you paid for it.

Racers rule: Tell wife everything is $/10 the IRS $*10 (for dedections) and $/100 for gains. The truth, tell no one.

Smoke the car. It's just a car and from the sound of it too much worry to drive and enjoy.

I lean towards the sale...but really, use the $ to get out of debt, starting with the highest interest debt first. Money paid in interest is money you can't spend on yourself. One reason I plan on keeping my car until I can't drive is because the $$$ I'd get for it would absolutely make no difference in my lifestyle. It sounds like selling this car could make a difference in your financial health. Snowman's advice may not be so sound...can you be sure nobody reading this board works for the IRS???? Talk to your CPA or Tax Attorney.

Capital Gains? . . .Everyone knows that when it comes to old cars, the cost of storage, parts and labor far out paces resale.

My gawd, man; it's old AND British! --Cheerio ;)

oh, and to the Q "what would I do?" -- I would have the kids figure out how to put themselves through college. College seems to be one of those things where the kids need to be clearly investing themselves. It would really suck if your kids essentially burnt up your Aston, because "it was just something to do."

Have to agree, Hugh - dump it. Invest in your credit card debt and house. The memories are what count, not the fact that you can barely drive the car without a worry.

Here's another way of looking at it...

Imagine you won 120k... what would you do with the money? Pay off debt and fund your children's university, or go out and buy a DB4?

It's hard but you should sell the car and use the money to pay off debts.

1031 exchange on a pleasure vehicle? I'm all for tax avoidance, but this is really pushing it.

I dunno what you should do. Normally, I would support guys selling 911s to start families and buy a house, but you've already got the family and kids. Plus, 911s are just 911s (dime a dozen). A DB4 is a special ride. I'd lump this in with a 73 Carrera 2.7RS, and I sure as he!! would never sell one of those.

Your kids can get student loans. The rates are low, and you don't pay until you graduate. You can still pay, but defer one kid's payments.

I think you will certainly regret selling. You've had the car for a looong time and put a lot of blood sweat and tears into the building. It's a really beautiful car. It's right up there with the e-type and 911 aesthetically.

That said, that much money would make a fair difference.

if you have room to store the thing. keep it.

my stepdad has some dandy cars in his past. he wished he kept everyone of them. AND SO DO I!

Keep the car. It's not fungible like a 911 and is likely to be worth much more 10 or 20 years down the pike. It could in fact be your pension.

Set your minimum acceptable price and put it on the market @ +15%.

If you get your money, you have a nice buffer against calamities and a leg up on tuition costs.

If you don't get your money, you still have an asset you can use and enjoy.

Keep car, sell kid(s).

Seriously, even if you're doing well, I think that kids should help bear the responsibility of higher education. It will keep them more glued to the books rather than partying. Furthermore, it will make them "hungry", kids that get everything handed to them end up becoming Paris Hilton wannabes - completely worthless as contributing members of society.

I say keep the car without a doubt. It sounds as though you are doing ok financially and although pocketing $150k sure would be nice, do you really NEED the cash? Would your life suffer or would you not be able to provide for your family without it? If yes, then by all means sell - but if not, if this is just a way to get ez money, I think in the end you will regret it.

I'm young (37) and I was lucky enough to inherit a '57 Speedster from my Grandfather that has been in our family since about 1970. My grandfather sold the car once a few years later and regretted it almost immediately.

After a couple of years, he finally tracked it down for sale in NH and was able to purchase it back, and it's been in our family ever since. He died in 1980 and that car is a very, very special part of my life that I would never consider selling. Sure, the thought has crossed my mind at times, and the cash would have a pretty major impact on my finances, but I swore to myself unless there was a medical need, I would never sell. Irrational? Perhaps. There are times I wish I sold and bought Microsoft 15 years ago, but even then, I know I'd regret it. I don't know if you have as strong an emotional attachment as I do, but if you do, think twice. Just one man's view, good luck - it's a tough call.

Also, if you are paying the usurious rates that credit card companies charge, learn to manage better. I have cards, but I'm one of those who the card companies call "deadbeats". In other words, I treat the cards as cash, pay the bill in full every month. I pay them zero interest while taking advantage of their other goodies, like discounts, extended warranties, etc. To repeat...when you pay no interest, you have more money for your personal use.

I second this sentiment. I once briefly owned a 904. Someone offered me almost twice what I paid for it a few months later - and I thought I had hit the jackpot and sold it. That was 25 years ago. I have been kicking myself ever since.

I don't know enough about AM's to comment on how these might appreciate, but I would have thought that the value of a car like this can only go up.

I'd say keep it. Having to watch what you spend is actually good for you. If you sell it, a few years down the road the money will be gone, you won't have the car and you'll look back and regret the sale. I've sold a coupe of cars and regretted it so much I bought them back.

It's hard to replace 34 years of history.

JR

No way to crunch numbers here because not enough info was given. But yeah, add up how much you pay card companies in interest alone. Eliminate that, then you may be able to keep your car & also reach other goals?

You can never have to many cars.

Trading a beautiful car like that for some stucco, a new BBQ, and a replastered swimming pool seems like a bad deal to me. Even if you are no longer enjoying the car, think of it as part of your retirement savings. If you sell it, put the money into some other investment for your retirement. You wouldn't cash in your 401k to buy a BBQ grill.

Yes, the house is an investment but dumping the Aston money into your house isn't ideal, because you'd be concentrating your investments even more in one asset class (undiversified). Not to mention that, AFAIK, $1 spent on replastering increases your home value by less than $1.

Also, right now contractors are expensive because of the housing boom. Too many people funding renovations with home equity. In a couple of years, it'll be different and you'll be able to get the same work done for less money. Can't the house go a while longer without new stucco and floors, etc?

Of course, classic Aston values could fall too. Remember the Ferrari market in the late 1980s. But I suspect your Aston's value will fall less (in percent) than your house's value, in the coming 5 years.

P.S. If you're going to treat the Aston as primarily a financial asset, then keep track of its investment performance vs other alternative investments. E.g. is it's value rising more than the long-term stock market trend? Right now, I'm sure it is (having just read an issue of Sports Car Market).

THIRTY FOUR YEARS...it'd be like trading in your wife....

My opinion is that U sell EVERYTHING else before you sell your BEST....asset.. YOur likely hood of replacing that car is practically NIL, and the likely hood of it appreciating in the futher is quiet high. You'd be surprised how much money you have just lying around the house all those nickle and dimes add up on E-bay...I've met women who net $500 a week by selling womens designer cloths that they find in Thrift Stores... so tap into those closets first...old sporting goods, toys etc.

As for credit card debt...they have been lending money very cheaply for the past 4 or 5 years....I have money at 1.99% for the life of the loan...do I ever want to pay that off....NO!

So if your paying more tha 5% interest something is wrong???

Your going to sell your DB4....for a BBQ...you've got to be kidding.

There NEVER is enough money...and I can tell U a story about a person who owned an NBA team that was always complaining about not having enough money.

I have always asked myself what if you suddenly go hold of an item on the cheap that is worth bank...Would I sell it????

Well it depends on whether it CAN CHANGE MY LIFESTYLE....50K not a chance, 100K doesn't even dent the can, 150K Nope....now 250K up then your talking INCOME STREAM......but your not planning on REINVESTING the money your going to use it for what amounts to daily living...

Your looking for THE quick fix....and thats selling your best asset...your Ace in the hole as it were...

$120,000. dilligently invested in oil stocks and gold mining stocks will likely be $1 to $10 million inside of 5 years.
DB4 will probably have peaked and headed down.
I know what I would do.

Disclaimer: Just my opinion, do your own DD, and invest wisely.

Re: Sell or Keep another valuable car, advise needed
 

Looking at it this way, the money is gone already, or rather, you never had it to begin with.

This is a tough choice. You need to re-evaluate all your assets in terms of asset allocation, income generation, future earning potential yada yada.

Personally, I would sell the car and invest the proceeds to produce an income stream from which I would whittle away at the abovementioned debts, rather than buying that bbq or fixing the pool etc. Keep your lifestyle the same. In the end, you will have an appreciating investment asset left over and the debts killed.

What investment fantasy world are you living in? That would take returns of 55% to 150% annually for all 5 years.

Keep it or sell it? I like the ideas that say consult the family and get their opinion.

One thing that was overlooked is the seeming lack of pleasure derived in driving and owning the car.....

So keeping it begs a question... what for? If driving it is not resaon enough then it becomes an asset for consideration..

Look at a longer term picture.. if now you find it hot and loud to drive, what will your priorities be in a handful of years.. once the kids are out of uni? Will the desire to drive it all of a sudden return? Will that noise and heat be less in a few years or more? And will knowing the financial value of the car be a deterent for actaully driving it in traffic surrounded by unknown drivers of questionable skill and ability?

Yes it embodies 34 years of your life, many memories and feelings... but it appears to no longer have a 'full place' in your current life and focus. Ask yourself, how does it fit into your future life before you make the call...

If the future picture has it front and centre then you keep it...knuckle down the spending now to get it moving; knowing you will, at the end of it have what you really want...

Perhaps you are planning to move out of LA and into a more open enviroment where you can drive it more regularly and away from the heaviest traffic...on the open raod where it is meant to be...

I just went through something similar (on a much lower scale). I ended up selling my 57 356A, and I am pretty sure I won't be able to buy another int he foreseeable future... (unless the market tanks but if that's the case, I probably won't be buying another car either). The bottom line for me was how much I got to drive it, which was not that often... Came down to insruance. The classic insurances are more and more restrictive (can't even drive to dinner, gotta be "pleasure"!).

Do I regret it ? A little bit, but I was enjoying watching the car in the garage more than actually driving it in hot weather. Do I enjoy the extra space and the things I can do with the money ? Yup... Been there done that. If you think the car has peaked and you are getting a bit bored with it, sell it, let soemone else enjoy it, reduce your debts, and who knows, if you really miss it you may get another in the future...

Thanks for all the input. I mentioned this to my brother last night and his response was "As long as your at it, why don't you sell the sterling flatware that you inherited from Mom and the original artwork as well?". I guess one concern is that I rebuilt the engine 30 years ago, and again 2 or 3 years ago and I can't seriously see doing that type of thing again when I'm 70. And many of you are right, do I want to trade the car for a bbq and stucco? Not really. I guess the (hopefully) short term cash flow problems with college education and such turn around in a few years. The cost of living in Los Angeles is just not (at least for me) keeping up with the annual salary increases. There are a couple of things I have to do to the car before I can realistically consider selling it in order to get top dollar. I believe I have an imbalanced flywheel from the rebuild that is causing a bad vibration that is manifesting itself through the trannie. Without fixing that, I'd probably be looking at a $30K hit on the price. I won't be getting to that until at least June.

As far as a family heirloom that gets passed down, that isn't going to happen. My wife has made it clear that she won't leave such a valuable asset to either of my kids.

Then your wife is going to leave them the money instead?

U got Sterling Flatware and Orginal Art Work????

Ohhhh my another SPOON COLLECTOR...

Depending what the Art works are..and the sterling is..they are good assets that can bring a pretty penny.

If you have either Allan Adler, Porter Blanchard, Kalo or Georgian Sterling I would say keep it...other than that sel sell sell....

If U don't have top name American/european Impressionist or Modernist paintings I would consider selling them to...

But the point is once they are gone they are gone....unless the money is put into some kind of income producing stream...and the money therein derived can over time get you all the things you mentioned and U would still have the priciple...Man if you sell that car you got to make that money count if U don't it will chafe every time U think about it...

In my opinion KEEP the BEST QUALITY hard assets you have they rise in value exponently...whereas medium run of the mill stuff goes up more slowly.

Like I said....there is alot of stuff in the closets that can bring you bank, much more than you would think is there....