The Stradvari Paradox
 

Christies just sold at auction a Stradvari made in 1707 for $3,500,000.00 up from one sold in april 2005 for $2,500,000.00. A worlds record for a musical instrument.

I can't beleive the prices that are being paid for Collectables....I took a look in the current issue of Hemmings ...a Mustang like mine was advertised for $68,500.00 and it was the only one like it in the issue. Four or five years ago there were ads for 10 to 20 of them in every issue...NOW????

Antique Guns...RE...Violins....where does it stop? Many collectables have gone beyond what the average collector can afford...who can afford $13,800 for a Remington UMC 1911? I know I can't.....

Yet I paid less for the TV set that I just bought than the one I bought 16 years ago....it seems like we live in 2 worlds.

It just doesn't seem like a $$$ is worth a $$$ anymore...

Tabs,

Is it indeed a paradox? The 'value' of any object has always been related in some fashion to its availability. Here on the board, we make reference to no longer available parts as being made of "unobtainium".

There are probably two dozen Chinese factories cranking out TV sets into a market where most people have two, three or four. I don't recall Mr. Stradvari producing a violin recently.

I wonder what the inflation rate would be from 1707 to the present.

Les

Hell, I will let my "strad" homemade scratch built copy go for only 1 million if I can talk my daughter out of giving it up.:)

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Dang Tim, that's beautiful work.... might I suggest you call it a Hancokivari and see what it will fetch :)!

Some old b!tch at a local violin shop told me that I could not build a violin that was better than the cheap student violins she was trying to sell me for $400. I told her that I was a hardcore DIY type with experience in building real and model wooden aircraft and boats ETC ETC. She then showed me one she had built. The next day I ordered $250 of high end spruce and maple from a luthier supply company. I spent about 250 hours building this thing which included building many of my own tools (bending iron, scrapers, purling cutter etc).

When I took the finished violin to her she was SHOCKED. I had a local custom builder builder inspect it and he stated that in his opinion, it was comparable to a $1500 european built violin. (Tabs, I will let you have it for $800k)

I guess I better keep my day job, as 250 hrs for $1500 is not gonna cut it, but it is now a family heirloom and my daughter has played it in weddings. I since have reconditioned several other violins, it is an enjoyable hobby and both daughters enjoy playing them.

I hear ya...I know if I worked on 911s for a living...I'd soon be in the welfare line :)! Is the 'high end spruce and maple' the key to the sound? I seem to remember a documentary sometime back on the Stradvari's 'tone' (and why it was so exquisite), and that was one of the theories...the wood he used. Anyways... beautiful craftsmanship!

Tim, if you make any more, you'll just be diluting the brand. Some day your violin might be sold at auction at Christie's. :)

Beautiful work, Tim.

Check out the movie "The Red Violin". Great story about a violin made by one of the masters and varnished with his dead wife's blood that takes you through the violin's time line.

The sound quality on a violin cannot be based on any one component. Wood quality/aging, graduation thicknesses of the top and bottom plates, shape of the bass bar, shape of the top and bottom plates, varnish, strings, sound post placement etc etc. It truly is a black art and many have debated for years what makes the best violins. One of the common points of discussion about Strads, is the formulation of varnish used by him.

Yep, seen it, good movie.

Tim

Absolutely beautiful. The 250 hours is what makes it so. I love wooden instruments, there is nothing like beautiful timber coming to life, and a well made instrument will open up with age, care and use.

I wish I could do that, I dips me lid.

Stuart

For the longest time they concentated on the varnish and the shapes he used - then someone figured out the wood was grown during a period of "global cooling". Slow growing and dense.. Interesting stuff.

Believe it or not, some even are contemplating about whether the sewage in the river that the logs were floated down may have conditioned the wood in some way!

Strads in reality, are now more or less collector pieces and very few are actually in use. While many indeed possesed fine tonal quality, it does not mean that every Strad will neccesarily sound any better than another old master built instrument worth only $20,000. It has been awhile since I have read up on this stuff, but I think there are about 50 "known" Strads in the world today and tens of thousands of Strad "copies". In Europe, in the 1800's, lot's of little shops turned these things out in the thousands to folks who wanted to impress their friends with their "Strads" (kind of like the Rolex watches one can buy on the street in NYC).

Yes!, that's the part I didn't remember the specifics of....

Tim, you're a freak!

Yeah Lendaddy, no doubt, I have a few too many hobbies. :)

After seeing your plane and the one you're making, then this I am convinced you obviously have a serious meth addiction and should seek help immediately:)

Tabs - back to your question (although Tims work is exceptionally notable - you sir are a craftsman extrodinire!)

The huge tickets mean that 1) Some money is free to play with which means the eco is as strong as ever and 2) some people or *****'n nuts - blame it on a version of mad cow.

I bet you cannot make a a Spruce Goose better than Howard Hughes' cheap ass version.

Tim, that is awesome - I'm so blown away.

My father-inlaw makes violins and guitars from scratch - even mills his own wood from tree stumps.

He has reconditioned many others.

Such talent Tim, freak'n talent up the wazoo man.



SmileWavy

BS...I made a cutting board in high school shop WAYYY better than that:)

Beautiful work Tim.

I had heard one "trick" to the Stradavarius tone was the varnish used kept the cellular structure of the wood open. Instead of filling the core of the wood cells with goop, you are left with an intricate scaffolding of the cell walls. I would imagine that having a tremendous effect on resonance and tone.

Hmmm, I don't think enough aircraft grade spruce exists anymore. I spent about $1500 on doug fir, Sitka Spuce and Okoume plywood just to build one of my airplane's wings. I can't even fathom how much it would cost to build a "Spruce Goose" in todays dollars. I wonder what the Spruce Goose would go for at auction? Probably alot less than the cost of the materials alone.

Thanks for all the kind words guys. Thinking back to when I finished the violin, I must admit to feeling pretty proud of it and holding it up next to the old/hag/naysaying violin lady's violin with it's crappy craftmanship was priceless! :eek: :D :D

Is that your way of pussing out of the dare?...I used to have respect for you.

This is a subject of much deabte. In the 80s everyone wanted heavy guitars -density and mass, giving "sustain". Many axes from those days had brass bridges and nuts, the thinking being mass is good.

The trend is different now, epsecially with electric guitars- "light" means lots of air in the wood, therefore resonance.

On an accoustic intruments, the use of tone woods is more critical. Solid AAA Sitka spruce is still the choice for sound boards on most better guiatrs. I recently toured a boutique guitar mfr, and the way they select, hold (for many years) and handle the timbers they use is an art and science in its self. The whole factory is a sealed, controlled humidity environment.

Wait a minute! .... Are you saying I can't do it?:mad: I will show you! Now where is my Aircraft Spruce and Specialty catalog, I need to order some wood!:D

lol...:D

Damn fine workmanship brother.

Meeting my mechanic might change your mind!

I'm just so sloooooow.... I usually multiply the estimated hours to do a job X days in order to figure out how long its gonna take me to do a project :)

I seem to have the same problem. I hear it from my wife all the time "Your too slow! Why does it take you so long to do something?" The only thing I never seem to do quickly is her then she complains about that!

A guy can't win...

A couple crappy shots of two "basketcases" I fixed up, the full size one is a Guldan made in approximately the 1940's and the smaller one (which was completely apart in an old case) is a 3/4 size Strad copy that says "made in Germany" and had a hand written repair note inside dating 1908.

Someone had sanded (blasphemy to a violin) the larger one, so after repairing the cracks, I refinished it. The smaller one, I just cleaned it well and french polished the old finish after repairing/rebuilding it.

These have little value ($200-$500), but they were fun to work on when my violin itch needed scratching again.:D
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We need some sax to go with the violins....

Crap.

I think I've got a cool 911, then Jack O posts another picture of BB-2.

I like my Bonanza, turns out it's just a fancy "spam-can" compared to Tim's hangar.

I know a couple chords on my used guitar, now Tim once again slaps me back down to where I belong.

Awesome craftsmanship. I don't have the patience to do what you do. Thanks for the insperation.

Not into violins, but that is pretty damn cool... Nice work.

rjp

Truly Beautiful....that said I will send a check for $800,000.00 to Lubby to hold while the transfer is being made and then I will stoooo....OHHHH wait a minute we've been all through this before....lets just forget the whole deal....

I wish my fabric "old school" stuff could cruise at Bonanza speeds. My idea of a "spam can" is basically any tricycle gear Cessna single and many tricycle gear Piper's (not that there is anything wrong with that ;) ). Most pilots that I know, all have lusted over a Bonanza at some point!

If I had more time, I might look at restoring an old Bonanza or better yet an old C310. I just have too many irons in the fire at any given time (at least that is was my wife and kids always say :) ).

As fun as it is to tackle a wide variety of projects, it must be nice at times to only have one toy to go ALL out on. My sickness is a curse!:D

I have an old voilin in a wooden box at home, wifes mother's people had it for yrs. Look inside and it says Stradavaris something something and then a yr. I took it to a local shop several yrs back now (probably 15 or more) and they said it was produced in his shop a few yrs after his death. The condition is not playtable but I think it' interesting. They said for 15oo.oo they could make it play. at the time 1500 was like 15k now to me. I will try to get a photo for you guys to see, seems ya'll know way more than me and it's sittin in a closet. oh, well retirement?

another barn find story, eh? ;)

The smaller older looking violin above says on the tag inside "Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonensis Faciebat Anno 17" and then below that it says "made in Germany". If you look on Ebay, often many violins will be advertised as belonging to a deceased relative and that they are a Srad cause the sticker inside says so. They are almost always 100-150 year old copies (they may indeed be a fine instrument, but they are more than likely not the real deal). Not too many "reputable" shops would glance at one and tell someone that it is real, as there are thousands of old copies sitting in closets all over the world.

Here is a pic of the 3/4 size "Strad" showing how I got it and what the tag said. It is a copy for sure.

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