The Caliphate
 

I can't stand to watch the News anymore, everything seems to be going from Bad to worse, and nothing gets done about anything. There is no resolution and the sores just keep festering.

Iran is jangling its sword, first Hezbolla in Lebanon, now they say they will talk but their Nuclear program isn't part of the discussion. They take over an oil rig. All of this just shows how impotent the US has become.

The US is going to try and get its European Allies to stick to sanctions. That will be the day. One thing here is that its the Europeans who have their necks on the line on this one, because Europe will be well within range of a Iranian Weapon. However Israel will use their Nukes against Iran if need be.

Iraq is one step away from an out and out Civil War., and the war could spread throughout the region.

In the US the Dems and Reps are fighting like cats and dogs, and neither side is willing to set aside their differences long enough to insure the countrys safety.

Illegals are begining to take over the country.. and remake it into a Third World Country. Believe me when I say we are fked if the Illegals are not stopped. Just think of LA as a Big TJ for starters.

I don't think Osma quiet saw things playing out as they are, but he set the ball in motion and the world is spirling outa control. The Muslims have won, they won because our Security systems have not been able to adapt to an amorphic enemy. We are bound to our Bureaucratic proceedures and need to have a fixed enemy.

The West has lost its will and thats why I'm headin down to Bed Bath and Beyong to buy myself an assortment of towels and sheets. Allah Akbar....ya all.

BTW...I wonder how Hillary, Nancy, Barbara and Diane will look in Burkas....onr good thing is that they won't be able to meddle anymore, cuase they will be outa office. Hey the Caliphate won't be so bad after all.

I will submit to our new Muslim overlords.....just as soon as they pry my MAK90 from my cold dead fingers.

Welcome to Coventry

I have to say my thoughts as listed above aren't exactly presented in a coherent fashion. Maybe it represents the chaotic nature of the times.

Osma wanted a Muslim caliphate that was Saudi based, with him or one of his followers in charge. What he might get is a Caliphate that is Teheran based. The Sunnis don't particularily like the idea.

If Iraq goes over the edge into total CW instead of the smouldering embers U have now, the conflict might very well spill over the borders and engulf the whole region in a Muslim vs Muslim Jihad. That would put one he11 of a shock wave into the Global Economy. The US would then be forced into maintaining the peace NO MATTER WHAT THE COST. Instead of 2600 dead in 3 years it might be 2600 dead a week. U say the American people woudn't stand for it. I say if you have NO JOB because Gasoline is $10 to $15 a gallon if U can get it and your facing foreclosure on your house..2600 dead aweek will look like the cost of doing business.

Sounds like someone's got a case of the Mondays.

;)

No I just made the mistake of turning the News on.

Iraq was a cluster fk from day one..starting with the lack/faulty planning to the heavy ham handed execution. GW and his administraion are not the only ones to blame but the US Military and Intelligence agencys can take their share as well.

I totally agree. I saw it coming from Day #1. It was SO obvious Bush wanted a war. The U.N. thing was a chirade (it was so transparent it was disgusting), there was no credible evidence of WMDs or a link to A.Q., etc. Most people either seem to have forgotten how repetitively the administration hammered these two reasons for going to war over and over and over and over. Either that or they're simply sick of hearing about it. Dunno which.

As soon as U.S. troops had closed within artillery range of Baghdad, I knew there were no WMDs. If Hussein had them, he'd have used 'em either against the troops massing on his border prior to the actual invasion or CERTAINLY against troops encircling his capital. I suspected it was B.S. up to that point. Once it got to that point, I knew it with a certainty.

Impeachment at this point would only do Bush a favor by getting him out of office before this all blows up in his face. Right now I bet he's sweating bullets counting down the days until the next administration hoping to salvage anything of his legacy. He's undoubtedly hoping that the looming recession/crash at home and outright eruption of civil war in Iraq, or another terrorist attack don't happen before the clock runs out. That way he and his neocon nutjob buddies can point to the next administration and blame the "failures" on them.

Of course their memories will be short and they'll call the claims of the majority that the stage for failure was really set by THIS administration "bogus" and "lies" and "propaganda" and "liberal bunk". Never mind the fact that they'd done exactly this to blame the present administration's failures on the Clinton administration themselves. . . .

The idiocy of it all sickens and saddens me. It's so predictable.

I don't disagree with U on Iraq. From day one I said WMDs and AQ were SELLING POINTS for the American people. Iraq was a cluster fk from day one, and the Bush admin doesn't bear the blame alone, but is/was a systematic failure.

Other than Iraq the Bush admin has done a pretty good job when faced with a difficult situation.

"....the Bush admin has done a pretty good job when faced with a difficult situation."

Please elaborate. This sounds interesting.

Katrina

One needs to pick one's battles. We picked exactly the wrong one. Tabs is correct that 50 years worth of administrations backing what ever tin-pot dictator who wasn't a commie, has come home to rest. There is plenty of blame to go around. The policy of "any enemy of my enemy is my friend" has put us in bed with some despicable characters. All for short term gains, never to solve any long term problems.

Bush's problem is too much action, not enough thought. We should have gone into Afghanistan with full force. Once that nest of vipers was eliminated, than we could focus a more enlightened ME approach. These Muslim countries only understand their version of success. The US or Israel backing down or leaving (which is inevitable) is a total victory for them. Our successes on the battlefield count for little or nothing. We lost a couple of dozen men and two helicopters in Mogadishu and we empower the entire ME. Clearly we need a different strategy here.

You mean like with Katrina, the "ownership society" they've touted (while personal debt levels soar), the systematic dismantling of civil liberties, the appointment of a vocal and well-known anti-UN pundit to the post of UN ambassador, the degradation of U.S. respect globally, the biggest net job losses in the U.S. since the Great Depression, the biggest run-up in the federal defecit in history, the lowering of environmental standards (burying their heads in the sand when confronted with overwhelming evidence to support global climate change), etc.

Glad to see you got your groove back, tabby.

Wow. Very well put; I actually find myself in full agreement on this. Just to highlight one of your points, "their version of success" is the key to much of the problem we face in the ME. We understand what it is, but we don't have the stomach to go that far. Saddam was right. Maybe we will get somewhere when we can finally drop the notion that we are dealing with reasonable people, under our definition of "reasonable". That would serve two purposes. First, it would help us decide if it is really worth it to meddle in their affairs, understanding that half measures are seen by them as weakness. Second, it may give us the resolve to decisively finish anything we choose to get involved with in the ME. Our reputation is that we do not, so they no longer (if they ever really did) fear or respect us. That seems to be all they understand, and they very much intermingle the two. We feel (or hope) we can earn the respect by bypassing the fear. It just does not work that way over there.

Re: The Caliphate
 

That would be because people elect the same bad apples, to the same foul government, year after year, expecting things to change. You shouldn't be either surprised, nor depressed. The outcome is exactly as expected.

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Iran is jangling its sword, first Hezbolla in Lebanon, now they say they will talk but their Nuclear program isn't part of the discussion. They take over an oil rig. All of this just shows how impotent the US has become.

America is strong, the US government has insisted on making itself weak by indulging in wanton abuse of power.

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The US is going to try and get its European Allies to stick to sanctions. That will be the day. One thing here is that its the Europeans who have their necks on the line on this one, because Europe will be well within range of a Iranian Weapon. However Israel will use their Nukes against Iran if need be.

Only if they want to not only insure their own destruction, but speed it up as well. Israel is years passed the time in which it could have guaranteed its' own existence. That's too bad, but it is fact.

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Iraq is one step away from an out and out Civil War., and the war could spread throughout the region.

Brought on by the disgusting Bush'ists and their associates.

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In the US the Dems and Reps are fighting like cats and dogs, and neither side is willing to set aside their differences long enough to insure the countrys safety.

The Dems are equally foul these days, they are stuck in a 1930's Rooseveltian fascist aspic and appear unable to extricate themselves. Too bad, their roots go back to Thomas Jefferson and George Mason. They really were the most honorable party until the 20th century.

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Illegals are begining to take over the country.. and remake it into a Third World Country. Believe me when I say we are fked if the Illegals are not stopped. Just think of LA as a Big TJ for starters.

The extremely high level of immigrants, legal and illegal, will eventually doom America; to what I do not know nor will I live long enough to see it, even if I break into 3 digits. But it will come. Unless the younger two to three generations reverse the damage done by the Kennedy, Reagan, and others who opened the immigrant floodgates beginning in the 1960's.

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I don't think Osma quiet saw things playing out as they are, but he set the ball in motion and the world is spirling outa control. The Muslims have won, they won because our Security systems have not been able to adapt to an amorphic enemy. We are bound to our Bureaucratic proceedures and need to have a fixed enemy.

Bin Laden is little more than a powerseeking opportunist as near as I can tell. He is riding on the back of the tiger, which will eat him if he tries to get off.

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The West has lost its will and thats why I'm headin down to Bed Bath and Beyong to buy myself an assortment of towels and sheets. Allah Akbar....ya all. BTW...I wonder how Hillary, Nancy, Barbara and Diane will look in Burkas....onr good thing is that they won't be able to meddle anymore, cuase they will be outa office. Hey the Caliphate won't be so bad after all.

Nah, it won't happen in their lifetimes either, and the muslims will have to fight the hispanic gangs to get it. Probably won't survive.

Do I detect a reversal here? Where are the die hard supporters?

I really would like to hear from them since there are two sides to every story.

If anyone still believes the real "war on terror" is the fiasco in Iraq, suggest you catch a repeat of the CNN special "In the Footsteps of Bin Laden" which aired tonight. His avowed goal is to kill as many of us as humanly possible and all we have accomplished in Iraq (besides getting a lot of people killed) is to flood the ME with potential martyrs for the jihad.

And all King George, Darth Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. do is continue to pass out their right-wing neo-con kool-aid... and a lot of people still belly up to the bar.

IMHO of course...

Jack

I'll second that humble opinion.

I couldn't stand to watch Spike Lees Documentary on Katrina and NO. All the people whined, "Where is the Federal Govt to help us."

People have been trained like monkeys to rely on the govt for everything.

"Oh Katrina is the worst natural diaster ever." I wonder if they ever heard of San Francisco in 1906. How much aid did the Federal govt give SF.

Decline of Civil Liberties under Bush....Yur still able to call Bush a Monkey if you like in this country.

I don't see anybodys CL being abridged on this Board???? So whose rights are being abridged again???

Enviromental degregation...Its called progress, your standard of living by DEFINITION is environmental dedregation. Civilization is another term for destroying the environment. Monkey go climb back in your tree and be happy to play with your SUV.

The economy is going great even after the worst shock this country has had since 1941. Just take a look at the price of Collectable Cars...1M paid for a Hemi Cuda???? Even our Motion owns a Ferrari...Alot of people have dinero to spend. Unemployment is at what 4.6%, Corps have alot of cash, Home owners have made alot of money, Interest rates are still realitivily low. And why Bushs Tax Cuts have worked.

I remember back in the mid 90s when Clinton bragged about how many jobs were created under his admin. Everybody looked around and said, "OHHH U mean those jobs down at Mickey Ds." So don't give me this Bush is to blame for jobs being shipped overseas or mfg jobs being eliminated. This has been a long term process that started in the 1980s when US companies got lean and mean to compete in the world. Remember when we were all about to surrender to the Nips back in the 80s and were whining about how they were beating us at our own game. But U little scamps just have to blame somebody...it seems Liberals are like trained monkeys always wanting to rely on the govt to tell them when to eat, p!ss and *****.

Yet, we ought to consider ourselves fortunate. Contemplate, if you will, for a minute the grim outlook were we born a poor farmer in Iraq or Lebanon..

This planet is arguably doomed anyway. Homo sapiens evolved (or where created ;) ) into a creature not compatible with a balanced, flourishing planet in the long run.

Man is supposed to be the Shepard and care for all living things...but what he has turned out to be is a destroyer, who lays waste to everything he touches.

Spoken like a true buffet-master. :)

Yep a herd of Locusts couldn't match me at a Buffet.

BTW....Aubergine is just another word for PURPLE.....Jimmy Baby...

And we all know PURPLE rocks! Hendrix playing in the background.

Tabs is SO right. All over again..:D

My Post had a neutral bias to it...just stated the facts.

I do like Purple on the 72 and 73s..it is the only era specific colour that I like. One can keep that hideous Sepia Brown and that awefull Gold Colour....

I have often said that Porsche painted their cars Sepia Brown, because they found some left over WW2 paint in a shed out back and being the cheap Huns that they are wouldn't let it go to waste.

Yep man has had the impact of an Asteroid hitting the Earth, just slower

I for one do not believe any of the man made doomsayer rhetoric. The natural environment of the planet has existed through many wild swings of death, destruction and rebirth. Man's relatively short time on earth has been of little affect. That does not mean we should not try to take care of the earth, but that it will outlast us no matter what.

As far as man-made doom, we've heard this a hundred thousand times before; every crackpot takes a swing at it. Guess what, they have always been wrong. Have we forgotten all the Christians who voiced an opinion that the end of the millennium was the end of man? Go back and read the enormous number of news reports of "preachers" and religious prophets pushing that stuff out at that time. Well, we're still waiting!

Please note this is not posted to upset any Christians, doomsayers or not, just to point out a recent example of such nonsense. No Christians were injured or killed during the composing of this post.

Now, back on topic. We completely misunderstand the minds of our opponents. We did not learn from Viet Nam and we or the Israelis from the ME. We can not win in any conventional war or battle. They win if they stand up and lob a rock, they win if they inflict any damage no matter how insignificant, they win if we kill (martyr) any one of them, and they win no matter what in their own minds. So how, except complete annihilation are we to win? I have several idea’s, but let’s hear some others opinions. No fantasies (I like reality) and no kill them all scenarios (see fantasies). Let’s try to stick with thing we could do in 5, 10, 15 years but geared to a long term solution. What say you?

Put Bush/Cheney in charge of their future.

Bringing them into the "modern world" is our only hope in the long-term. A good friend grew up in pre-Ayatola Iran; he tells me the younger generations all long for everything "western". Give those people the means by which to take control of their own countries from the religious fanatics and we would see progress. Expose them to more tolerant cultures and see what starts to happen.

Give 'em all an IPod.
That will confound them long enough to make them forget what all the fuss was about...

Kind of like the tolerant cultures of France, England and Holland? That don't work.

tabs..

The economy is great depending on whom you ask. As for "Democrats" looking to the government for clues as to when to have bodily functions, the "Republicans" simply follow blindly the current leadership and benefit from the "economy" that favors folks able to pay one million for a "Cuda". Difficult to "label" entire groups of people by party when there are those in both profiting and others suffering from the economic conditions. Them that have cannot relate to them that ain't. Different worlds.

Different views, put forward by folks on different rungs of the economic ladder.

BTW...The National debt is 8.4 trillion, each citizen owns a $28,377.32 share and the interest paid in fiscal yaer 2004 was $321,566,323,971.29. (www.publicdebt.treas.goc/opd/opdint.htm)


Another take on tax cuts....With lower taxes, folks do tend to purchase more. So, is it not possible that this has contributed to the "feeding frenzy" of refinances, potential bankruptcies and the growing debt load of the "average" citizen? Does anyone else think that the Administration would have more support for the war IF the populace were asked to make a few sacrifices as a method of uniting under a cause like coupons during WW II? I think the cuts have had the potential of as much harm as good.

Yes, the planet will prevail but we won´t. Naturally speaking.

You DO need the government to take enough from your wages to pay for federal spending, including war spending. Otherwise, you'd just be passing along the burden of your spending to your kids and grandkids ... and no decent, responsible person wold do that, right?

Yea, and if I decrease eating, I can get back into my size 34 pants.

Easier said than done.

Until it's done, we pay as we go, it's that simple. Bush's borrow and spend policy is the height of selfishness and irresponsibility.

Republican control of all branches of government sucks.

Sorry dude, the admin makes the budget.

Congress passes the budget, subject to leadership, arm-twisting and ultimately veto by the White House.