Moral, Ethical? - Page 3

Jims5543 · 08-31-2006, 06:52 AM

But, this was not open and notorious. As far as the owner of the land with the house was concerned they were on their own lot. The open and notorious clock began ticking when I surveyed the vacant lot next door and found the house encroaching onto it.

Now what is done over the next 7 years will decide if they can claim the land by adverse possession.

I am at my office now and breaking out my legal books.

Here is a checklist for Adverse Possession.

a. Open
b. Notorious
c. Hostile (under claims of right)
d. Continuous
e. Exclusive
f. Adverse
g. Peaceable for the terms of years of the statute
h. Did color of title exist (if so, then constructive possession is allowed; if not, then only actual possession is allowed)
i. Against the government or against some person suffering under a disability (under age, insane, in prison for a term of years less than life, or in service of his country on foreign soils) If against one of the above, Adverse Possession cannot occur.
j. Were taxes paid

Looking at these parameters there is no adverse possesion.

Rodeo · 08-31-2006, 06:55 AM

Looking at your legal analysis, I know why I don't survey my own property.

I tried.

Jims5543 · 08-31-2006, 06:56 AM

BTW - I am contacting a local real estate atty I have used in the past to help me out with this and keep me from getting in trouble.

But first, I have a friend that sits on the board of professional review, I am calling her this afternoon and running this whole mess by her, see what she thinks from a ethical point of view. Ultimatly I would be before her if I was in trouble.

Jims5543 · 08-31-2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
Looking at your legal analysis, I know why I don't survey my own property.

I tried.

Its funny, I have done nothing wrong but can see how this could be twisted into me loosing my license.

This is why my profession sucks.

Rodeo · 08-31-2006, 07:01 AM

My comment has nothing to do with your license, I was just commenting on your legal analysis of adverse possession. Unless Fla has some strange rules, I think it's wrong.

Surveyors shouldn't practice law and lawyers shouldn't survey

Jims5543 · 08-31-2006, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
My comment has nothing to do with your license, I was just commenting on your legal analysis of adverse possession. Unless Fla has some strange rules, I think it's wrong.

Surveyors shouldn't practice law and lawyers shouldn't survey

My mistake. This is in one of my notebooks, well its copied from one of my notebooks and in a binder I keep for quick referance. It was written by a Florida Land Surveyor that is also a Lawyer. His name is Ted Madson and is well know in the southeast in the surveying circles. Google his name.

Those are guidlines set for land surveyors to determine if they are indeed dealing with an Adverse Possession issue.

I agree with you yet, lawyers write legal descriptions and surveyors are asked to determine things like adverse possession.

Jims5543 · 10-11-2006, 09:31 AM

Update:

I just signed off on a assignment. So instead of my purchase of the lot the people with the house can step in my place the close it.

The funny part is the attorney does not list the homeowner on the assignment. He has listed a Title Company. As I got to thinking I have to wonder if he is buying the lot and turning it for a profit?

I really do not care. I am not in the middle of this anymore and the homeowner is getting the lot and solving their problem.

I just could not bring myself to flipping this lot like that.

competentone · 10-11-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
The funny part is the attorney does not list the homeowner on the assignment. He has listed a Title Company. As I got to thinking I have to wonder if he is buying the lot and turning it for a profit?

Thanks for the update; I was wondering how this turned out.

Did the homeowner have title insurance when they purchased the home? If they did, I wonder if the title company could have been on the hook to clear up the issue?

It wouldn't surprise me if the attorney was making a tidy profit on the deal!

Moses · 10-11-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

I just could not bring myself to flipping this lot like that.

You're "old school", Jim. Not many like you left. Too bad.

Jims5543 · 10-11-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
You're "old school", Jim. Not many like you left. Too bad.

As I look around sometimes I have to wonder if nice guys really do finish last. I wish I could say my honesty has served me well in my 10 years of owning my own business, instead I would have to admit it has cost me 10's of thousands.

The beggest thing to me is the fact that I have no regrets. I like who I am.

Thank you for the compliment Moses.

Jims5543 · 12-21-2006, 07:04 AM

Well this took a turn towards unethical again. This time its the lawyer handling the problem.

It seems HE bought the lot through his title company instead of the owner of the house buying it.

He is now wanting to hire me to divide the lot in 3 pieces, where he will offer to sell 1/3 of it to the homeowner to clear up their encroachment issue. The other 2/3rds are up for grabs to either property owner on each side. If the person with the setback issues wants to buy all 3 they can but they will have to compete with the neighbor 1 lot over.

So the lawyer has turned it into a bidding war between the 2 neighbors to grad the land that is available.

I can only hope this backfires and neither are interested in the other 2/3rds.

There might also be an issue with the City and breaking up the land into unbuildable pieces.

I am not inclined to take this job on even though I can use the work it does not sit well with me. Leave it to an Attorney to take a simple solution to a problem and make it overly complex, and in this case possibly double dipping and making a tidy profit off of it.

m21sniper · 12-21-2006, 08:31 AM

Based on your original post, i'd split the difference. There's a good chance that's all the att'y is hunting for anyway.

fastpat · 12-21-2006, 08:42 AM

Jim, you should absolutely sell for fair or appraised market value. To do less hurts you and your family.

skipdup · 12-21-2006, 08:49 AM

You know, I happen to know a lot of real estate attorneys. In my experience, they are usually not the stereotypical attorneys every thinks of (trial attorneys). In fact, it's my experience that they dislike trial attorneys as much, or more, than Joe public. They're usually conservative and enjoy the win-win aspect of their particular specialty of law. Definitely not the sharks everyone considers them.

That said, sounds like the one your dealing with is a real piece of work. Trying to guilt you into a favorable price, so he can make a buck. I wonder if that's even legal??? Certainly misrepresented.

My .02,
Skip