Gay Legislation

[Superman]

Naw, Mat. This is the land of FREEDOM and LIBERTY...........

.........for white people in heterosexual relationships memorialized in county records who hunt and fish and listen to country music.

[roadhog]

Let me know when the free stuff starts, I'll put in my notice at work!Do you think we could work a beer allowance into the deal!

[legion]

How, exactly, does not being "my brother's keeper" force me to live in a gated community?

I'm offering freedom to not be successful. No dealing with what sound like "guidance counselors" when you don't live up to some standard. The other half of freedom is responsibility. If someone chooses to not be successful, they have the responsiblity to feed and cloth themselves. I much prefer this to a world where no one can truly excel because it just earns them a bigger burden.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Our society has gotten too screwed up for words anymore. Is it too late to cancel my membership and get my money back?

[red-beard]

I might be happy to cancel and be able to keep what I have!

Oh, wait, we're talking health care not social security.

[Moneyguy1]

Chris

Although far-fetched to some, most revolutions have come about when class differences reach a certain flash point. As been pointed out before, even the Romans understood that and used the principle of "bread and circuses" to mollify the hoi polloi. The French revolution; the Russian revolution...A truly self-serving government assures itself against such an eventuality and that takes some degree of sacrifice from the "haves".

The gated community concept is the insulation of the haves from everyone else but I have wondered about this kind of approach since those who are hired to provide the security obviously cannot partake of the lifestyle within that community and soon have mixed feelings about their masters. Sooner or later they join the ranks of the malcontents as well. Municipal workers in places like Garden City Long Island live in Brooklyn; not in the municipality where they are employed because the cost of living there exceeds their ability to pay that cost.

In an ideal society, everyone would strive to reach their potential. Unfortunately, there are no ideal societies of which I am aware. There are impedements at every level: racial, cultural, ethnic, economic to name a few. Some of us have been lucky and, to beat a dead horse, had a helping hand or two along the way. Many have not had this type of good fortune and see no way out. And others, to quote a line from a song in "Grease" "Have the dream but not the drive".

Once again, it comes down to the difference between success and fulfillment. Some people go through life and find success but are never truly fulfilled or satisfied.

Again, we come to the realization that the system is not working; that people are not empowered to seek success or fulfillment. Whether this is by design or by accident I do not know. But, from my point of view, it appears that the system is designed to limit opportunities for all but a few. Blame the educational system; blame the economic barriers raised by bureaucrats, somewhere something has gone terribly wrong and the American Dream is in danger of fading. No matter how much money is thrown into the Small Business Administration or Economic Development, it either is not enough or it is poorly used. Blame selfishness; blame greed. But all the blaming will do nothing to change the situation.

[red-beard]

You stay on your side of the gate, and no one gets hurt.

[Moneyguy1]

red:

In truth, every "revolution' has the "haves" vastly outnumbered by the "have nots"!!

Seriously: Do we really want a two tiered society?

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by rdk409

My opinion is if you simply call the Gay Union what it is, a Gay Union then this wouldn't be an issue. You have to get a legal union in the eyes of the court to be able to receive the benefits. You treat the union as a marriage in every aspect. If they don't call it "Marriage" then you don't have the religious aspect of the argument.

Exactly... I, for one don't view Gays as evil sub humans however "Marriage" in it's purest sense is a religious ceremony and the gay community using this issue to try to force it's lifestyle on the religious community. There are easy ways to set up a legal union for gays but they want everyones approval. And before you label me a religious homophobic there are plenty of atheist that don't agree with the gay lifestyle either. Personally I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors but if you want to do it on my front lawn we may have a problem.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
red:

In truth, every "revolution' has the "haves" vastly outnumbered by the "have nots"!!

Seriously: Do we really want a two tiered society?

Define a "have" and "have not!"

If your definition for a "have" is Paris Hilton, there will never be equity. This country is pretty darn full of "haves" and darn few "have nots" if you use a world view.

The revolution in France occured because people were starving to death, not because of simply having less than the rich people.

[MichiganMat]

There is just so much dogma and misunderstanding in our society I don't see anything ever changing for the gay community. I guess if I were back in MI and never been exposed to the Bay Area I would feel quite the same Scottmandue, I mean I met my first African American when I entered college for cryin'-out-loud.

But living here and having met so many wonderful gay people and gay couples, the concept of a gay "lifestyle" and legislation restricting the rights of "participants" seems incredibly unjust and misinformed.

[Superman]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1

Seriously: Do we really want a two tiered society?

Yes, he does. In his mind, and in reality, this is the same question as:

Do you want capitalism?

[Moneyguy1]

red

It appears that most posting here consider themselves "haves". There are a few exceptions, although.

Yes...the system we have here works just well enough to provide enough distraction to the masses. For now. All it would take are a few years of poor crops to change the equation, or a few billion more souls all vying for the limited resources..

Perhaps the answer is to export our poor like Mexico and Central America are doing. The question is: Where?

BTW..agree that there are too many people on the earth. Some of the environmental groups and so-called population experts say the earth can, in the long run, sustain a human population of about 3 billion.

[Burnin' oil]

I can't wait for the revolution. I have my eye on houses in Napa Valley and in Santa Barbara. Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee...

[legion]

Originally posted by Superman
Yes, he does. In his mind, and in reality, this is the same question as:

Do you want capitalism?

I'm surprised you are so candid. Most socialists promise that they can enact some capitalism-socialism-hybrid--though it becomes increasingly socialist over time. Socialism aims to put everyone on a level playing field. No one can have too much or too little. No one can starve, but no one can soar. And to be creative...well..there are guidelines for that.

We need to starve to appreciate having bread every day. We need to be desperate to appreciate success.

I don't want to live in a world where everyone is the same. I don't want to live in a world where putting in my best effort yields me nothing.

[Rick Lee]

I think haves and have nots is a bit of a misnomer. It should be gottens and not gottens or earneds and earned nots.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by MichiganMat

But living here and having met so many wonderful gay people and gay couples, the concept of a gay "lifestyle" and legislation restricting the rights of "participants" seems incredibly unjust and misinformed.

I too have known a few very nice gay people, I even slept over at my friends cousin's house when I helped him move to Portland... that would be his cousin and cousin's partners house. And neither of them were overtly gay... as a matter of fact we all went out and drank beers one night (mmmmm mircobrews). They weren't the least bit effeminate at all except that they slept in the same bed. As a matter of fact living in Los Angeles all my life I probably know even more gays that I don't even know are gay!

My point being why do some people have to get all in our face about their sexuality?

[Burnin' oil]

Or "Haves lots," "Haves less than lots," "Haves more than some," "Haves a little," "Haves not much at all," "Don't haves nothin'" etc.

[Rick Lee]

No. "Have" implies that it was given to them instead of earned by them. And the vast majority of well-off folks, in the US anyway, earn their money and work their as$es off for it. We are too young a country to have a real aristocracy like some European countries still have. Trust fund babies are a tiny minority.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by Burnin' oil
I can't wait for the revolution. I have my eye on houses in Napa Valley and in Santa Barbara. Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee...

Can I be you gardener? With my own on site house of course.