"Born on the Fourth of July"

[Matt Holcomb]

Say what you want about Oliver Stone and Tom Cruise, but this film is an underrated gem, and one of the most affecting and forceful films ever made.

And now, almost twenty years after it was made, it packs an even greater punch thanks to the increasing parallels between the Vietnam and Iraq wars.

Below is a stirring clip from the film that expresses how I feel about the U.S. and the Iraq War better than I ever could.

[Tobra]

Meh, that movie was not that good.

William Oliver Stone is a political hack. He is quite adept at the manipulation of people who are inclined to agree with him. He likes the "documentary" format that is liberally infused with total BS that never happened and pass it off as fact.

Iraq is not Vietnam; about the only similarities are that the US is involved and not committed to being successful

[BGCarrera32]

I thought it sucked.

[89911]

I hated it, as I do most Oliver Stone Movies. (He should of ended with "Platoon"). I personally can't even watch any movie Tom Cruise "acts" in. I think it was the movie "Cocktail". "Forrest Gump" gives a more accurate portrayal.

[rrpjr]

I remember that bloated bit of bathos. That was the only year I actually rooted for somebody in the Oscars – for Daniel Day Lewis to defeat Tom Cruise. He did.

As to Iraq-Vietnam analogy, the only thing this noble war against nihilist death squads in the territory of a deposed tyrant fought by a volunteer army has in common with that noble war 40 years ago against communist revolutionaries fought by a conscripted force is the almost united determination of ignoble politicians, with total disregard to the consequences to our country and to the innocent people in the war zone, to undermine it .

[vbaron]

Great movie. Parts of it were so familiar, growing up on Long Island, the "wargames" we played as kids, the brainwashing of what a "good" American ought to think and do, the realities of war and especially its' after effects. Yes, the parallels are sad.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by rrpjr
this noble war

i'de be laughing if it wasn't so sad to call the carnage over there "noble"

[sammyg2]

That movie did more harm to the vietnam vets than any nutcase trader actress did.
It took me a long time to get that movie out of my head and regain the respect for them that "most" of them deserve.

I personally know too many whiny, looser lowlifes who don't try to suceed at all, but are more than willing to blame their total failure in life on the vietnam war even though they didn't actually fight. One of them is in my extended family. He never saw combat, never saw Viet Nam. Closest he got was a radio station in Guam. Total looser who wears his vet nam vet card on his sleeve as if it's a get out of jail free pass.
That POS even went "back" to viet nam with his war buddies so he could get some closure. What an asshat. That was the first time he'd ever been there, but the drama queen in his saw an opportunity for some sympathy and attention.

I also know Vets who I admire a great deal for their character, and the sacrifice they made for this country. That movie did them a disservice.

[pwd72s]

Oliver Stone movies are leftist propaganda disguised as "entertainment". This is nothing new in Hollyweird.

ALGORE picked up on the same...

[ejames19]

Movie was entertaining. Which is the idea i thought!? Keep the Money Machine rollin', and it worked. I don't think any movie can be compared to post or pre war ideals. Just my 0.02

[chapo]

Had high hopes for that movie. It sucked. Self absorbed actor and director.

[911boost]

Yeah no surpises here in this thread, especially who started it.

Yawn.

[kach22i]

I liked the movie, it was very moving. Not your typical coming of age movie.

The VA hospital scenes were all to real.

[dd74]

Just so everyone knows Oliver Stone has real stones, this is from Wikipedia:

A veteran of the Vietnam war, Stone served with the United States Army from April 1967 to November 1968. He specifically requested combat duty and was assigned to the 25th Infantry Division and the 1st Cavalry Division, and was wounded twice in action. His personal awards include the Bronze Star with "V" device for valor for "extraordinary acts of courage under fire", and the Purple Heart with one Oak Leaf Cluster.

I think he has more rights to make "Born on the Fourth of July" than many commenting on the merits of the movie.

[BGCarrera32]

Sorry dd, I paid money to watch it and thought it sucked. If you don't feel I should have an opinion, tough cookies.

[rrpjr]

Originally posted by svandamme
i'de be laughing if it wasn't so sad to call the carnage over there "noble"

There was carnage at Thermopylae, where there was also nobility. There was carnage in Iraq before we came. There will be carnage if we leave. On its present trajectory, your continent is headed toward carnage. We are fighting both the potential and form of carnage itself.

With its intention to depose a tyrant, liberate a people, regenerate both the impulse to liberty and the currency of hope in a region suffering the acutest kind of despair -- at such national cost -- a war could not be more noble.

"The young men of little education--earnest displaced villagers with the ways of the countryside showing through their features and dialect and shiny suits--who guarded me through Baghdad, spoke of old terrors, and of the joy and dignity of this new order. Children and nephews and younger brothers of men lost to the terror of the Baath, they are done with the old servitude. They behold the Americans keeping the peace of their troubled land with undisguised gratitude. It hasn't been always brilliant, this campaign waged in Iraq. But its mistakes can never smother its honor, and no apology for it is due the Arab autocrats who had averted their gaze from Iraq's long night of terror under the Baath."

Fouad Ajami, after his recent trip to Iraq.

[dd74]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
Sorry dd, I paid money to watch it and thought it sucked. If you don't feel I should have an opinion, tough cookies.

The point is, you paid money. And that's all Stone cares about.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by 89911
I hated it, as I do most Oliver Stone Movies. (He should of ended with "Platoon"). I personally can't even watch any movie Tom Cruise "acts" in. I think it was the movie "Cocktail". "Forrest Gump" gives a more accurate portrayal.

Boy, the above sure is the way I feel. I refuse to watch ANYTHING that tommy cruise is in, and stone is trying to play michael moore more than make good movies...

[Tobra]

I quit watching movies with Tom Cruise in them a while ago.


Don't get why he is popular, can't be his acting ability, maybe 'cause he makes chicks look tall, like Alan Ladd or Bogart used to do, but they could act.