So Long Kobe? - Page 2

911pcars · 05-31-2007, 12:56 AM

I first saw Kobe playing in a summer Pro league just before his first season with the Lakers. He was jacking up 3-pointers from all areas of the court, mostly oblivious to the other 4 guys on his team. Of course he was young then. However, he hasn't changed much; even when he had worthy supporting team members during the championship years. It's difficult to compare players and their team members in different eras, but I'd much prefer someone like Bird. While less flashy, a deadly player with great team skills. And I'm not a Celtic fan.

Sherwood

KFC911 · 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
More reason the NBA has become glorified ghetto-ball since the end of the Michael Jordan era. I can barely stomach watching the game anymore (and I grew up loving the NBA as a kid in Boston during the time of Larry Bird, Danny Ange, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Bill Walton, the rivalry with Dr. J and Kareem-Abdul Jabbar, etc.) Now it's a bunch of wanna-be hip-hoppers trying to out-bling one another. It ain't what it used to be. Sad.

That's my take exactly, and I was a "gym rat" growing up in NC, while living and breathing basketball (along with other sports). I haven't watched an NBA game since MJ's last one, and probably never will again. Same with baseball, they lost me too. Maybe it's an age thing, but I don't think so, as I'm still as much into football as I ever was (maybe more to fill the void). What really sucks for me (regarding the NBA, and I don't miss them), is that they have also destroyed the college game by enticing all the goods ones to go pro after a couple of years, the team concept is virtually gone...

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by mattdavis11
What a disappointment, I thought this thread was about Kobe Tai.

+1

Highlander179 · 05-31-2007, 07:57 AM

in regards to him being a team player or not, just how well have the Lakers done postShaq in games when Kobe scored <25points? people gave him crap about not sharing the ball last year, so in the playoffs he barely even took a shot. How'd those Lakers do then?

Kobe is 100% right. The team is garbage.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

The problem is, Kobe wants to be the "supa-stah" but then he b*tches and whines that he's not getting any support. Well, which way does he want it? Does he want to integrate himself and his playing into a "team" setting or does he want to showboat and continue to make it "all about Kobe"? He can't have it both ways.

For a supposed "coaching genius" like Phil Jackson to overlook or ignore or otherwise not address this is pretty weak, IMO. Personally I think Phil Jackson is HIGHLY overrated and has been more lucky than skilled, but that's just me (also maybe a bit of resentment for his passing up Red Auerbach, who WAS an excellent coach). Anyway, Kobe needs to grow up and start figuring out what his place is. If the team REALLY sucks and he's calling for the team to be gutted and rebuilt, then he needs to recognize that getting other talent around him is going to change and compartmentalize his role on that new team and his ego better take a back seat to the good of the team. I doubt he'd let that happen. At his heart, he's a showboating goon.

KFC911 · 05-31-2007, 09:03 AM

Not many teams were worse than the Bulls when MJ joined them...it took a few years, but the truly great players "elevate" their teams to championship caliber. Kobe has great skills (although I haven't watched him play that much), but is FAR away from being a great player, he's not even close imo. Phil J. is good, but he too was elevated by MJ's excellence to his current status.

tabs · 05-31-2007, 09:08 AM

And while they watched the Game on TV, their souls were being sold down the river by their Leaders.

KFC911 · 05-31-2007, 09:23 AM

Not me! ....I quit watching

Hugh R · 05-31-2007, 09:36 AM

So how I just don't give a rat's behind about pro-sports. How many pro teams have moved to another city? Lets see, Dodgers, Lakers, Rams, Raiders, .....How can you consider them to be YOUR team, when they're certainly not.

the · 05-31-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
The problem is, Kobe wants to be the "supa-stah" but then he b*tches and whines that he's not getting any support. Well, which way does he want it? Does he want to integrate himself and his playing into a "team" setting or does he want to showboat and continue to make it "all about Kobe"? He can't have it both ways.

Anyway, Kobe needs to grow up and start figuring out what his place is. If the team REALLY sucks and he's calling for the team to be gutted and rebuilt, then he needs to recognize that getting other talent around him is going to change and compartmentalize his role on that new team and his ego better take a back seat to the good of the team. I doubt he'd let that happen. At his heart, he's a showboating goon.

At this point of his career, Kobe just wants the team to win. He has nothing left to prove to anyone as an individual player, and he knows that.

He is able to integrate himself into a team, he's done that already with this current team in the last couple of years. Problem is, it didn't work. Because the players surrounding him stink. Who are you going to have taking the last shot of the game, Smush Parker?

To contend for a title, a modern NBA team needs to have TWO superstars, a solid third player, and then some very good role players. The lakers have one superstar and a bunch of inexperienced and/or unskilled players. That's where the laker's front office screwed up. They let a lot of good people get past them in the last couple of years - Carlos Boozer, Baron Davis, etc. were all in their reach.

Another thing a modern top team needs to have is a good coach AND a respected "player/enforcer." That player has to be fully on the same page as the coach and willing to crack down on behalf of the coach. Jordan/Jackson, for example. A current example is Duncan/Popovich. And Nash/D'Antoni. Kobe and Jackson respect each other, but the relationship between them is not strong enough to work well, esp. during tough times.

KFC911 · 05-31-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by the
[B]At this point of his career, Kobe just wants the team to win. He has nothing left to prove to anyone as an individual player, and he knows that.

As stated, I'm not an NBA fan at all anymore, but I'm not sure I believe the above to be true. Maybe I'm way off base, but I've always perceived that Kobe wants to be regarded as "the greatest player ever" and I still believe he's trying to prove that. BTW, what has he proven as an individual player... that he has skills? Thay ALL do at that level, and it's a "mental game of toughness" that seperates the great ones... Kobe doesn't even come close imo.

scottmandue · 05-31-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by the
At this point of his career, Kobe just wants the team to win. He has nothing left to prove to anyone as an individual player, and he knows that.

He is able to integrate himself into a team, he's done that already with this current team in the last couple of years. Problem is, it didn't work. Because the players surrounding him stink. Who are you going to have taking the last shot of the game, Smush Parker?

To contend for a title, a modern NBA team needs to have TWO superstars, a solid third player, and then some very good role players. The lakers have one superstar and a bunch of inexperienced and/or unskilled players. That's where the laker's front office screwed up. They let a lot of good people get past them in the last couple of years - Carlos Boozer, Baron Davis, etc. were all in their reach.

Another thing a modern top team needs to have is a good coach AND a respected "player/enforcer." That player has to be fully on the same page as the coach and willing to crack down on behalf of the coach. Jordan/Jackson, for example. A current example is Duncan/Popovich. And Nash/D'Antoni. Kobe and Jackson respect each other, but the relationship between them is not strong enough to work well, esp. during tough times.

Right on target... when Kobe "shares" the ball the team loses... when he "Hogs the ball" he can score 30 points, he and Jackson have tried it both ways and neither is working, every winning team has a superstar point guard AND a superstar center... until the lakers get the center they won't win another championship.

911pcars · 10:41 AM

"...is that they have also destroyed the college game by enticing all the goods ones to go pro after a couple of years, the team concept is virtually gone..."

I agree and slightly disagree.

The NBA has to find a solution to seasoning young players before they hit the NBA road. On the one hand, there shouldn't be any obstacles preventing one from earning a living. On the other hand, the college game suffers and so does the NBA in the long run with one-dimensional, immature, pampered and overpaid teenagers.

As for the team concept, it's difficult with the above making up the majority of your rosters. San Antonio and Detroit in the NBA finals play the best team ball. That's how they got there. But ask yourself, would fans rather tune in because of spectacular one-on-one plays or tune out because of less spectacular team play and the dearth of superstars (save for Duncan)? Without Kobe or Nash or Nowitzki or James or any number of other "superstars" playing, I see Nielson numbers shrinking.

The reason for this situation could be the NBA's best customer; the LCD fickle sports fan who would rather sit, drink beer, fantasize and criticize rather than get up and move around. Not picking on the NBA in particular. Every major sport has a fan base from the LCD.

Sherwood

KFC911 · 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911pcars
[B][....The NBA has to find a solution to seasoning young players before they hit the NBA road. On the one hand, there shouldn't be any obstacles preventing one from earning a living. On the other hand, the college game suffers and so does the NBA in the long run with one-dimensional, immature, pampered and overpaid teenagers.

I've got a brilliant idea...it's called 4 years of college ball and the maturation process that goes with it! I have no problem with the athletes going for the big $ (who wouldn't), but the NBA money bags have ruined it. I just took a quick glance at a list of the top 50 pro athlete's incomes, and counted approx. 25 NBA players on the list earning (salary & endorsements) over 15 MILLION per year. I'm not envious of their salaries (well, maybe I am

), but MONEY has ruined the games/sports that I loved growing up.

Joeaksa · 05-31-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mattdavis11
What a disappointment, I thought this thread was about Kobe Tai.

Here as well! I could help that girl...

BTW, Kobe deserves to be in the house of doors... and hope he makes it eventually.

tabs · 05-31-2007, 01:22 PM

And the Slaves bantered among themselves about the NBA as they rowed the Galley over the horizon.

KFC911 · 06-01-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
And the Slaves bantered among themselves about the NBA as they rowed the Galley over the horizon.

Let me put it in perspective for ya since I assume you never played the game. What if someone f***ked up you beloved buffet lines, or bent a spoon...you'd banter too wouldn't ya? Don't really give a crap about the NBA, but I do hate what they've done to "sports" in general.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Rapist.

If he could not play ball and did not have truckloads of cash, he would be playing ball in the CO state pen.

KFC911 · 06-01-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tobra
Rapist.

If he could not play ball and did not have truckloads of cash, he would be playing ball in the CO state pen.

...I'd bet he wouldn't be b**chin' about his teammates then

Highlander179 · 06-01-2007, 07:20 AM

... and you KNOW he is a rapist because ....