Funny how Floridians weather major hurricanes year after year and quickly rebuild without whining about it. The speed with which areas were rebuilt after Andrew hit was amazing. And with much less federal aid than the residents of New Orleans.

The media keeps parading these losers because it fits in with the "Bush's fault" agenda. What did GW's predecessors (including his Dad) do about the levees? Nothing of course. Did the former Congressmean, Senators and governors who served Louisiana do anything? Not that I'm aware of. Does the media report on that? Not that I'm aware of.

Just correcting your errors in your previous statement, Red Baron. :rolleyes:

Houston is 13 meters above sea level.

Please check your facts before you type. You risk loosing credibility. :)

Nagin may be a nice guy, but he dropped the ball big-time in the days prior to Katrina. Large hurricane, bearing down on you, you have several days notice. What effort did he make to evactuate the town, and to get out those that were unable to move themselves? I'm all for personal responsibility, but he didn't even make any real options available to his residents. Like what? I don't know, maybe all of those busses that turned into toys in the big bath-tub post Katrina. Making those available to get people out of town would be one hell of a start.

But those that are sitting around, waiting for Uncle Sam to sweep in and make it all better, I have little sympathy for. I look at Greensburg, KS, decimated by a tornado earlier this spring. Within a few days, people had stared moving in with equipment to clear out debris. Those that didn't want to stay salvaged what they could, took their insurance check, and moved elsewhere to start their lives. But those that stayed to rebuild did so pro-actively. Some took their money and sought out a contractor to rebuild. Some went after it themselves, with the help of their friends and neighbors. I know people that have family in Greensburg, many went back every weekend to help out. Not the government, not for pay, just friends, family, and neighbors helping each other. There was no looting, no crime. Everyone picked themselves up, dusted off, and moved on with their lives. Sure, it's a small town, but why can't we all take this attitude in life? If we work together, help out our friends and neighbors, we don't need the government. Of course, I think you'd be hard-pressed to convince many NO residents of this.

As for me, that weekend I was at my in-laws in Claflin, KS, which also sustained damage. I helped pull a large grain bin off of my father-in-law's lumberyard, deliver materials for emergency repairs, and remove items from a stranger's rapidly flooding basement. Say what you want about KS, but at least people around here still give a ***** about each other.

Thank you Mule...I haven't been back to NOLA since Katrina, but I know of too many good, hard working people who have been devastated through no fault of their own... Sammy lives in a glass house :)

You guys blaming Nagin...that's only New Orleans...what about ALL of the other parishes that are literally in the same mess?

You are dead wrong . He made A LOT of effort to get people to leave. He pleaded with people to leave for two days.

And there was not several days notice. The god damn storm had not even crossed Florida on Friday. What, you should have started evacuating the city while the storm was off the coast of Africa?

No offense, but you have no idea what your talking about.

When do you start and who drives the busses? Let's just start there.

What I find hilarious is that on one hand people say it shouldn't be the governments responsibilty to rebuild lives BUT on the other hand it was the governments fault (NAGIN) for not getting people out.

Do you mean like the floods that have recently been ravaging the mid-west?

The "flood" of intellect on this issue is amazing. First, N.O. is where it is for strategic reasons. The mid-west has a farming economy BECAUSE grain can be shipped. Guess where that grain gets put on ships? In case you missed it, only New York ships more goods than N.O. Later, it was found that the oil necessary for a growing country was here in mass volumes. If we'd only had this kind of intellect available then we could have moved the oil & gas deposits to a more suitable location. We probably should have moved the seafood industry inland as well.

O.K. geniuses, here is the cliff notes version of the story. The levees were built by the Corps of Engineers. That's the U.S. Corps of Engineers, not the LA Corps of Engineers. They cheated, they lied, they said that they loved us. The levees were supposed to be cat 3. They resisted upgrades to cat 5 because as was expressed here, who needs N.O.

Katrina hit land as a 4 not a 3. The wind gauge blew off of Boomtown Casino at 167. The surge that came with it was a cat 5 surge and a very large one. All of the horror stories you saw after that were in basically 2 groups. 1 was people wholly dependent on the government, and yes there are too many here. 2 was the criminal element hoping to plunder the city.

Truthfully, neither one of those groups tugs at my heart strings. If you want real stories of people who worked, who struggled to take care of their families & were hosed by insurance companies who had gotten fat for years or rotten a$$ govt bureaucrats, I can tell you some of those.

As far as that arrogant, look down your nose attitude, it feels good until the tables turn. The midwest floods regularly. California, no comment necessary. If LA had not been robbed of it's oil revenues (as was recently corrected in court) by the US govt, levees would have been easily affordable.

Think about me the next time you fill up, Remember, walking sucks.

Why has nobody asked the obvious question that everyone REALLY wants to know here?



WHERE IS HE TODAY?!?!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1188393506.jpg

QUOTE: "Do you mean like the floods that have recently been ravaging the mid-west?"
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Nice try ...Not even CLOSE to similar circumstances!

QUOTE: " As far as that arrogant, look down your nose attitude, it feels good until the tables turn. The midwest floods regularly."
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And we have tornadoes, too... And guess what? We DEAL with it! We don't sit on our azzes with our hands out ...waiting for the Gov. to rescue us!

What the hell do you think happened here? First, your BIG DISASTER in KS was NO COMPARISON to the greatest natural disaster in US history. Your arrogance is amazing. There were tens of thousands of people working 16 hr day do do just what you describe. Allot of them came from all across the nation. God bless 'em. Oh yeah, they didn't have the kind of focked up attitudes you guys seem to.

Does it make you feel good to look at victims of the greatest natural disaster in US history & talk about how superior you are. Hell I bet youd've whipped Katrina's ass & sent her packing huh?

Nagin may indeed be a nice guy. But that's got nothing to do with his management ability. I know plenty of famous pols who are nice guys and nothing like the image you hear about on the news. Doesn't mean they're great at their jobs. Nagin is not really to blame for everything, but he sure makes himself a good lightening rod. And while I'm no fan of Al Sharpton's, the man is far better with the media than is Nagin. Jesse Jackson is not. Ironically, the only time I ever saw him in person was at the NO airport many years ago. Gen. Honore was probably the best media personality to arise from the whole Katrina mess. I'd be curious to see how much good he has actually done, since he's obviously not battling Nagin for the media attention.

You're my hero dude!!! As I say commonly, the difference between smart & stupid is smart has limitations. So when the water rises & overtops the levees in the midwest it's different than when the water rises & overtops the levees in LA.

And you have tornadoes too? I think we need to plow the damn place under. Anybody who would live in such a place deserves no help.

QUOTE: Does it make you feel good to look at victims of the greatest natural disaster in US history & talk about how superior you are.
__________________

Superior? Are you reading something extra into what I said?

Also, better take a history lesson. Greatest natural disaster in U.S. history? Amusing.

It's a microcosm, and you're too damn angry at the world to see the relevance. The town was wiped off of the map, literally. Sound familiar? When the people climbed out of their basements, EVERYTHING was gone. But they salvaged what they could, and moved on with life, whether it was rebuilding or moving. They didn't wait around for the govt to show up with trailer homes and monthly checks, THEY rebuilt their lives. That is my point.

While Katrina is on a larger scale, in the end it's a personal tragedy. Each one of those people, whether it's Katrina, Greensburg, flooding, etc has to face losing everything. It's how they have dealt with that adversity that is the difference.

Mule,

The U.S. military was there way before the Canadian military, active and reserve with at least Texas guard ready to help. All were prepared before the Katrina hit Florida to support slightly different scenarios.

The folks in La. are crying because the state screwed up the help. There were forces sitting on their hands for days waiting for permission to help. The decision was made to shift lots of forces further East where the center of the storm hit. When La. finally decided to ask for help lots of effort had already been shifted.

Please get the facts straight and place the blame where it belongs.

Factual statements of the conduct of the refugees towards the military who did get them out still p!$$@! off most all who participated.

FOG

Fog, good points. Blanco should be horsewhipped. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about idiots who cant tell the difference between an afternoon storm and a situation where your house is under water for 3 weeks. I'm talking about geniuses who like in places with very similar problems but consider themselves somehow more valuable. Does that piss me off, absolutely. You see, every day I drive down streets that were piled 10 feet high with the trash from torn out houses that are now rebuilt by the hard work of hard working people. And to have some uninformed arrogant pr!ck talk down to them rubs me the wrong way.

These are not the people we are discussing. Just like my example, they picked themselves up, worked their asses off, and rebuilt their lives. These are NOT the people discussed previously, still complaining from their govt trailer that their new house isn't ready.

Who are you mad at again?

Mule,

My point is blaming the military and others from outside for lack of support when it was ready and waiting is inaccurate. That others were also prepping for the landfall.

I know Texas was prepping before Katrina hit Florida because we were doing lots of informal staff/liaison work with both the TxNG and TANG.

FOG

Dude, for supposedly being such a big pal of 'ol Rays, I would at least think you'd be in on his desire to be GOVERNOR. You lost a bit of cred on that one.

As for the "evacuation plan" need I go into specifics of how your 'ol buddy Ray ignored the plan already in place and FAILED to return the calls from the EOC? No, I don't think you want to go there.

As for our family, my in-laws lost their house and my father-in-law died soon after. Did they ask for FEMA or gov't help? NO. They were self-sufficient, bought their own trailer, starting the rebuilding without waitng for a handout.

Of course some of the "people who can be fooled all of the time" will support Nagin AND "cold cash" William Jefferson (can you say "Hep me National Guard") and continue the "womb to the tomb" mentality of many in N.O. (cue Warren Zevon music: Poor, Poor, Pitiful me"

Wanna' talk about you buddy's "outstretched "gimme arms" with Blanco & Katrina Mary after they screwed up the glorious "Road Home program"? Baron, I think you need to move home and help your boy Ray with his campaign for governor. He'll need it along with his pals Boasso and Campbell. Finally, Louisiana is poised to make progress, and it's not by any of the "good 'ol boys".

No doubt Nagin is not a polished politician that is suave with the media like a typical slime ball such as Sharpton. Nagin is a real down to earth guy and doesn't play the Mr. Nice Guy game with the media when they try to use him. He's a Maverick that will say how it is regardless of being PC. When Ron Pitts badgered Nagin several times after he already answered the question , he again said something that was not PC and the media ran with it for weeks.

Honre got things going in the right direction, and Nagin was key in getting him there.

I know this will not be a popular statement, however in reality Nagin did a helluva a lot more to rescue his city than Gulliani did after 9/11. And Nagin's situation was 10 times worse.