Nascar's future

[mattdavis11]

I never understood the love affair with F1, Cart, Indy or whatever it's called. I've never seen a car that resembles them on the street, outside of the prowler, and occasional hot rod. What's the point? OTOH, I see drivers wrecked on the road while trying to beat the others to work every day. I also see the Michael Waltrips and Dick Trickles driving in the "groove" congesting our highways. NASCAR can be related to everyday life, making sense of its existence, high horsepower go carts, not so much.

[cashflyer]

Two weeks ago I attended, for the very first time in my life, an asphalt oval race at the Greenville Pickens Speedway.

I loved it.

Renegade class is basically cars you buy on the cheap from the local shopper paper, install a cage, and race. And there were other classes that ran in other heats that night, but I really enjoyed seeing real cars, as opposed to the tube frame NASCAR toys, racing around.

But as much as I enjoyed the GPS race, I still am firm in my belief that NASCAR as it currently exists is like masturbation with a cheese grater - some excitement, but mostly just pain.

[id10t]

Stock car racing should be just that - stock cars.

"Gentlemen, you're racing in Daytona in 2 weeks. You have a $50k budget for car/tires/etc. and a $10k safety budget. Oh, and Bob's Used Dealership is having a cash special this week". Go buy a stock car from a dealer, put a cage, fire extinguisher, and a fuel cell in it and race.

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

I never understood the love affair with F1, Cart, Indy or whatever it's called. I've never seen a car that resembles them on the street, outside of the prowler, and occasional hot rod. What's the point? OTOH, I see drivers wrecked on the road while trying to beat the others to work every day. I also see the Michael Waltrips and Dick Trickles driving in the "groove" congesting our highways. NASCAR can be related to everyday life, making sense of its existence, high horsepower go carts, not so much.

I think it has to do with the technology and pushing the limits of what is possible. F1 cars require real superhuman dexterity (and money!) to operate and Im inspired by the depth of the engineering and innovation that each F1 car exemplifies.

I do enjoy NASCAR however for the drama. It can be terribly uneventful at times, but once I was able to get my head around the "back story" of the season I was able to enjoy more of the racing.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Why is F1 boring? Sure, there are few passes in F1 but when a pass occurs it actually means something. In NASCAR there are passes and repasses every stinking lap. Then on the 200th lap, they're still all running in the same big 50-car herd they started out as. The passes mean absolutely nothing, except on the last 5 laps or so.
]

ABSO-FRIGING- LUTLY!

Note:
I really do respect the drivers and the builders for what they do... but,

I have friends who are big NASCAR fans so I try to watch it... even been to a race in Fontana. It just comes off as a big burbling mass of look alike cars constantly changing position. And whoever happens to bubble up to the front of the pack on the last lap wins... hardly exciting to watch.

I have to disagree with Jeff (P-O-P) NASCAR may have started out in the south but now has become mainstream big time, when I went to the race most of the crowd was upper middle class families.

I can remember watching the old NASCAR with Richard Petty and the big old sedans. Now that was some exciting racing!
YMMV

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That pretty much says it for me.

[Flatbutt1]

MotoGP is my favorite form of racing, then F1. I'll watch Nascar when I'm at the bar just nursing a drink and wasting time.

[Netspeed]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

I never understood the love affair with F1, Cart, Indy or whatever it's called. I've never seen a car that resembles them on the street, outside of the prowler, and occasional hot rod. What's the point? OTOH, I see drivers wrecked on the road while trying to beat the others to work every day. I also see the Michael Waltrips and Dick Trickles driving in the "groove" congesting our highways. NASCAR can be related to everyday life, making sense of its existence, high horsepower go carts, not so much.

The love affair is about pushing automotive technology to the limits which is why F1 and the likes were created/evolved. To me, F1 has become so advanced that it doesn't relate to "real world" cars. True the technology might trickle down but I doubt all the aero-aids would.

Conversely, saying that Nascar can be related to real life is wrong. The cars are as much like every-day cars as are F1 cars....they're not. What Nascar has done phenomenally well is they learned how to market themselves. They do it better than probably any sporting outlet on the planet. And they do it without the greed of F1 (thanks Bernie). Nascar adapted extremely well to their changing landscape (i.e safety, manufacturers going to front wheel drive, etc.) Does this make great entertainment? Sure, but it does nothing to improve the automotive breed which is one of the reasons manufacturers went racing.

[stealthn]

Good point, I personally like all kinds of racing, each with it's own uniqueness. I know a local Porsche mechanic and shop owner here that has driven for TRG, Farnbacher Lowes, as well as tested cars for Nascar. His comments were interesting that the Porsche teams and racing is fraught with politics and it's very difficult to deal with as a driver, whereas with Nascar all that is shielded from the driver and he "just gets in and drives". And they are marketing geniuses.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

....I have to disagree with Jeff (P-O-P) NASCAR may have started out in the south but now has become mainstream big time, when I went to the race most of the crowd was upper middle class families.

I can assure POP that the demographics of a NASCAR race are more "yuppie than redneck" when compared to a typical college football game. One can never find idiots at non-NASCAR events with their shirts off, shaved/painted, etc.

I'm not much of a NASCAR fan anymore, but I find the stereotypes expressed here amusing (from folks that have obviously never even been to a race in person).

[mattdavis11]

I guess what I'd really like to see is a racing league with a quarter of the field being high horse powered go carts, a quarter from the monster truck series, a quarter from NHRA, and the rest from the not so stock cars from nascar, none of which have any engine restrictions. Set them all up to run different tracks so that each series runs it own tracks, and alter the tracks every 4 events. My bet is that the all out-haul a$$ around Talladega sells more tickets.

I couldn't tell you who would win, but my bet is on the truck. Gotta race the truck.

I'll never buy a 2.4 litre V8, who does?

[scottmandue]

I think we are getting a little off the spirit of the original post...

If I were in charge of NASCAR... hmmmm lets see...

All pit crews would be changed to hooters girls, sure the pit stops would be longer but who cares!

At every pit stop the driver has to slam a beer and do a shot of tequila.

On the next to final lap they stop the race, and have everyone do the last lap in reverse!

And unlimited engine size.

[Netspeed]

Originally Posted by stealthn

Good point, I personally like all kinds of racing, each with it's own uniqueness. I know a local Porsche mechanic and shop owner here that has driven for TRG, Farnbacher Lowes, as well as tested cars for Nascar. His comments were interesting that the Porsche teams and racing is fraught with politics and it's very difficult to deal with as a driver, whereas with Nascar all that is shielded from the driver and he "just gets in and drives". And they are marketing geniuses.

True...I read an article about Scott Speed driving in an ARCA race (Nascar junior). He was amazed that the teams help each other and have open garages where they all see what the other person is doing. No politics at all....

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Best way I've heard it put it this:

Unfortunately NASCAR has been hijacked by rednecks and that makes it something to avoid at all costs, far as I'm concerned.

Hmm...too bad those "rednecks" are actually where the whole NASCAR thing got it's start. Kinda hard to hijack what was pretty much yours the whole time.

My wife and I have been to a couple of races together, and she grew up in southern Virgina (20 minutes from VIR) going to ARCA and Busch series races. It's just like going to a football game, but with 43 teams instead of two. And I'm sure that the NASCAR crowd definitely contributes economically as much if not more to the areas surrounding the tracks than the rest of the fan bases. Try getting into a restaurant within 80 miles of the track after a race...good luck!

[mattdavis11]

I can't agree more with you Wolfe. These rednecks infiltrate N. Texas with their expensive motor coaches, bad a$$ old school domestics twice a year. Everybody is complaining about the money that goes to the local coffers

If you like F1, you are a bigger problem to the US than Mexican illegals.
Rednecks are a good thing, they vote right.

[jmshepard]

Please, someone tell me how this vehicle has any relationship in the reality of what people are driving in this century? How this car has a greater relevance than a F1 vehicle? Both NASCAR and F1 are a fantasy, the difference is that F1 is about cutting edge automotive technology and NASCAR has both feet firmly planted in 1955.
Toyota had to send their NASCAR engineers back to school to learn about carburetion in order to compete in the motorized entertainment.



It uses pushrod valves, carbureted technology in a chassis that is better suited to transport a dozen clowns around the big top. It is hard to wrap my noodle around a race car that either pushes or is too loose. Vehicle dynamics are adjusted by adding “rubbers” and a couple of turns on a track bar.

I have come to the conclusion that NASCAR has little to do with racing. It is a cult that deifies the drivers. Just critically listen to the NASCAR channel on Sirius or the shows on SPEED for any length of time and most people would arrive at the same conclusion. The topics have nothing to do with racing, it is all about Jr. and his step mom, what number is he going to use, or "how about the argument between Kyle Petty and whoever". I am convinced that the France family would be just as happy to remove the cars from the show and only run the weekly soap opera

[onewhippedpuppy]

NASCAR is a soap opera for men, with a racing plot and genius marketing. While it may have a redneck past, check out the price of an average ticket. Gotta mortgage the trailer for that one! Those that attend the race are more Mercedes than Mercury. The dedicated fans that camp in front of their TV for every race, however, are a different story.

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Best way I've heard it put it this:

"I can get all the excitement of NASCAR by watching my dog chase his tail".

If NASCAR ever actually starts making attendees shave their backs, or at least wear shirts, I'll consider attending. Maybe. On a bet. If I'm drunk. And stoned.

Unfortunately NASCAR has been hijacked by rednecks and that makes it something to avoid at all costs, far as I'm concerned.

while I agree with you to a certain extent, the drunken euro-trash in attendance at the two US Grand Prix I attended really were not any better

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by jmshepard

Vehicle dynamics are adjusted by adding “rubbers” and a couple of turns on a track bar.

That's what they adjust during a pit stop. I doubt the handling improvement in changing shocks, sway bars, or springs during the race would be worth the lost laps. Although I think that Tony Stewart's crew did change his shocks a few months ago during the race.

[mattdavis11]

I dunno, maybe you can get a good spring combo out of what Nascar does. How do you take what a 900lb car can do(with out tires) and apply it to a 4000lb car that you might buy. It makes no sense. It aint rocket science people.

If Toyota couldn't get horse power out of a carb, and I know they couldn't b/c we have a few, that's tech?

I'll tell you how it has appeal, it has fenders, much the same as your car. We trade paint. It happens, look at the # of collisions on the freeway. People race to where ever they are going, and will run over anything slowing their path.

Wake up man.