$5 gas is here

[pwd72s]

$3.16 for Chevron regular...yesterday's fillup in Cindy's Ranger. We did some shopping, played pool for a couple of hours. On the drive home, noticed the reader board at the same station reading $3.18.

[john70t]

In the winter snow drifts, the fat and wooly will survive.
Peak oil is a reality the US economy must eventually face, the concept of which almost "dissapeared":

http://globalpublicmedia.com/articles/441
"Yet, half a year after its release, the Hirsch report is nowhere to be found. For several months it was archived, in PDF format, on a high school web site (hilltoplancers.org, Hilltop High School in Chula Vista, Calif.). On July 7 the report disappeared from that site. The Atlantic Council (acus.org) is considering publishing the Hirsch report; however there is no projected date of release. "

[frogger]

Are you talking about this report?

http://www.peak-oil-crisis.com/Hirsch_PeakOilReportFeb2005.pdf

[philco]

You have had fuel so cheap for along time now, I would fill up and get those miles in. Surely prices are going to rise steeply over the next 12 months. It was reported on the news this side (UK) of the pond that the US oil production peaked in the 70s and has been on the decline ever since. Russia's peaked in the early 80's. Now that China is demanding more oil as a nation things are going to get tighter and more expensive. Here in the UK the price has just breached a pound a litre for unleaded, whilst super unleaded 1.06! And it seems to rise every 2 months or less!

[pwd72s]

Comparing USA and European prices should be done only if the taxes are removed from the comparison. European countries love funding social programs with fuel taxes. Here, the taxes go primarily for transportation funding.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

When I was in grad. school I remember reading about a guy in Colorado who had successfully heated his house for an entire winter by using nothing but junk mail as fuel. Obviously his heating system was upgraded for maximum efficiency, but it's still something to think about. He'd gotten himself on as many direct mailing lists as possible. I'll see if I can find it on the net somewhere and post a link if I can. Forget what journal it was in.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Comparing USA and European prices should be done only if the taxes are removed from the comparison. European countries love funding social programs with fuel taxes. Here, the taxes go primarily for transportation funding.

Then why are our roads so vastly inferior to those in Europe? I'd gladly pay double for gas here to have roads like those in Europe and I'd pay triple to have drivers here like those in Europe.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by dd74

As in...deregulation?

Please elaborate. I'd be interested in reading what you are talking about.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Then why are our roads so vastly inferior to those in Europe? I'd gladly pay double for gas here to have roads like those in Europe and I'd pay triple to have drivers here like those in Europe.

Scale does not compare.

[sammyg2]

[QUOTE=frogger;3576396]We have been hearing this same old story for the past half-dozen years. Is this intentional or are the companies that own these refineries just incompetent? Or are we going to hear how it's all the fault of regulations?

The phrase "Pay at the pump" is so appropriate.
QUOTE]

very nice.
A modern refinery contains many hundreds or thousands of miles of pipe, hundreds of thousands of valves, nearly 2000 pieces of complex and expensive rotating equipment, countless process control computers, and have to run full out for up to 5 years at a time with very high pressures (up to 3000 psi), very high temperatures (up to 1300 degrees f), corrosive and extremely flammable liquids and gasses with volumes that are staggering. Some of the largest refineries process over 10,000 gallons per minute! Amazing considering how complex the refining and purification process is.
Take your car up to redline for 5 years and let us know what happens.

No, refinery interuptions and problems are not intentional. Ever. There are way too many good people doing just the opposite, worknig very hard to prevent an upset.
Incompetent? I'd like to invite you to follow me around for a day. I work with about 1000 people who are anything but incompetent. They are proffesionals who understand that there are a million things that can cause a refinery upset, explosion, or fire and they work hard to prevent each and every one of them.
A serious mistake in an operating unit of a refinery can cost people's lives but I have no problem walking through one of these units, I trust the people who operate and maintain them.

I can remember when refineries typically ran at 80 to 85% of capacity because that was all that was needed and it wasn't as hard on the equipment. Now refineries run as close to 100% of capacity as possible, and that capacity has been increased over the years by improvements and modifications to the point where many refineries are now running at 150% or more of original capacity. The gasoline being made today is many times cleaner and more complicated than before also, which makes it even harder to keep on spec.
Even with all that, refineries today are more relaible and safer than ever.
There have always been refinery upsets, fires, and explosions. I've lived through many of them.
You are hearing more about them lately because today any upset affects the market because domestic supply is lower than demand. It wasn't always like that. There used to be a significant excess capacity. Now that number is a negative.

Suggesting that the people who run these refineries are either crooked or incompetent is ridiculous and suggests you know absolutely nothing about how a refinery is run or how it works.
Next time do some research before making accusations like that.

[Rick Lee]

This may be off the wall, but I believe a lot of states have differing requirements for blends of gasoline. So, it probably drives the prices up for everyone.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

This may be off the wall, but I believe a lot of states have differing requirements for blends of gasoline. So, it probably drives the prices up for everyone.

Thanks California!

[Superman]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

I'd be surprised if the SEC and DOE aren't already watching intently, the market is moving in ways that don't make sense to me.

Dubya's family is in the oil business. Cheney too. Do you really think the current (ahem) "administration" would investigate and pursue the oil industry for misbehavior right now? Hint: To save time, it could also include a joint Congressional committee, since a finding would also initiate impeachment proceedings.

Do I think this "administration" is going to interfere in oil industry profit-taking? Nope, I don't.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Then why are our roads so vastly inferior to those in Europe? I'd gladly pay double for gas here to have roads like those in Europe and I'd pay triple to have drivers here like those in Europe.

The end is near. I agree with Rick.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'd pay more than triple to have drivers here like those in Europe.

Of course we're busy rubber-stamping the driver licenses of illegal aliens who probably haven't driven a vehicle in their lives, but what the hey - we want cheap landscaping workers, right?

[dd74]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Please elaborate. I'd be interested in reading what you are talking about.

Didn't you suggest the SEC and DOE might investigate the oil companies, or did I read that wrong? That's why I posed the question, "deregulate."

I mean, after all, it's no secret that what we're dealing with within the oil companies is a cartel. Price fixing is rampant, and it's not the consumers - at least not in this country - who have decided what the prices should be.

In Europe, the prices are twice as much because of gas taxes, presumably voted through in democratic elections. We haven't done such here.

That's why I believe that for anyone in the oil and gas industry to say "Look at the Europeans and see how high their gas prices are," is fairly much an inappropriate comparison.

Maybe that's what's needed to loosen the oil companies' stranglehold on the worldwide consumer. A nice healthy government-initiated split up.

[gt350mike]

Originally Posted by philco

You have had fuel so cheap for along time now, I would fill up and get those miles in. Surely prices are going to rise steeply over the next 12 months. It was reported on the news this side (UK) of the pond that the US oil production peaked in the 70s and has been on the decline ever since. Russia's peaked in the early 80's. Now that China is demanding more oil as a nation things are going to get tighter and more expensive. Here in the UK the price has just breached a pound a litre for unleaded, whilst super unleaded 1.06! And it seems to rise every 2 months or less!

Everyone points the finger at Bush for the rising fuel prices, but China is the main culprit I'm wondering how much gas/oil the average Chinese can buy? Is it China's industry consuming most of the oil or is it something else???

[futuresoptions]

No Joke, talked to a friend of mine the other day... He generally goes into Mexico and purchases corn tortillas because he hates bread and flour tortillas. He told me that the prices have almost doubled and when he asked why the lady told him that the prices have risen because of the corn being sold to make ethanol. I guess the days of free chips and dip at the restaraunts will soon be over soon also....

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Superman

Dubya's family is in the oil business. Cheney too. Do you really think the current (ahem) "administration" would investigate and pursue the oil industry for misbehavior right now? Hint: To save time, it could also include a joint Congressional committee, since a finding would also initiate impeachment proceedings.

Do I think this "administration" is going to interfere in oil industry profit-taking? Nope, I don't.

Dude, read. READ. R E A D.
The oil industry is not manipulating the market, they are already scrutinized constantly. I never said otherwise. This has nothing to do with your twisted commie political liberal fantasy world.
i suggested that an investor group with deep pockets may be playing funny business.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by dd74

Didn't you suggest the SEC and DOE might investigate the oil companies, or did I read that wrong? That's why I posed the question, "deregulate."

I mean, after all, it's no secret that what we're dealing with within the oil companies is a cartel. Price fixing is rampant, and it's not the consumers - at least not in this country - who have decided what the prices should be.

In Europe, the prices are twice as much because of gas taxes, presumably voted through in democratic elections. We haven't done such here.

That's why I believe that for anyone in the oil and gas industry to say "Look at the Europeans and see how high their gas prices are," is fairly much an inappropriate comparison.

Maybe that's what's needed to loosen the oil company's stranglehold on the worldwide consumer. A nice healthy government-initiated split up.

NO. NO! NO! I did not say that. I said the opposite. I said the market is acting funny and that I suspect the SEC and DOE may be watching or investigating TRADERS. Private investors or groups.
The oil industry is already scrutinized on a daily basis, they can't fart without several government agencies smelling it.
Cartels? OPEC is a cartel, if you were referring to them you are correct. If you were referring to the oil companies, you know nothing of what you speak. Your tin foil hat is too tight.
Learn about how it works before acting like you know a conspiracy is afoot, or how to solve it.


PS, you can't deregulate something that is not regulated.