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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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The American Dream on $25
http://www.wickedlocal.com/northandover/homepage/x142934377
Quote:
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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No comments?
This kid proved all of the welfare experts wrong. He didn't do another study, he lived the life and the proof is in the pudding. Anyone can make something of themselves if they want to.
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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Registered
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,917
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Tend to agree. Barring mental illness, I believe most ' bums ' could pull themselves out of the hole they're in. Most just choose not to. I know here in Oz, as I'm sure it is the States, there are many agencies that offer help and support to better yourself. You just have to ask.
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Registered
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Posts: 926
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+1 dewolf
With out want you have not. BE - DO - HAVE ... You have to BE to get to HAVE. Starting at DO ends up with HAVE then LOST/BACK to the beginning. Look at weight loss for the easiest example. You can go to the gym everyday for a half year. Reach your goal and then a few months later you have rebounded. Because you never thought that you were "slim" you only did. Nike -- Just do it The story above ... was a set goal with the idea that the person already knew he would get out. Good story but there is a lot missing about the regular folks and their motivation.
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Carsten AKA Sapporo Guy ![]() 1982 SC -- US import it seems ... weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Detached Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
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Legion,
frankly no comment. Someone goes out to prove something and they do, I don't really care. I'm not sure what your trying to prove, hard work and dedication equal success? I think even those who say they scratched it out from the bottom up-most had some support. Me. I graduated UMass, Amherst, moved to LA and lived with my sister for a month or three until I found a regular paying job. Saved some bucks, gave my sister some cash and eventually got my own apartment. Used the GI bill to buy my first house, and moved on from there. I'm sure there are some people who crawled and scratched and got no help whatsoever, but I think most people had a friend/family member to help a little.
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Hugh |
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Did you get the memo?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 33,296
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Hugh, I think the point is that anyone can make it in America, contrary to what the welfare apologists would have you believe. All you hear is how that the poor, disenfranchised of America HAVE NO CHANCE at making something of themselves. This guy proved that in 10 mo. you can go from a homeless shelter with nothing to a fairly decent position in life, thanks to nothing but hard work. Of course, that whole "hard work" part is the catch for many today.
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‘07 Mazda RX8 Past: 911T, 911SC, Carrera, 951s, 955, 996s, 987s, 986s, 997s, BMW 5x, C36, C63, XJR, S8, Maserati Coupe, GT500, etc |
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<insert witty title here>
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While I don't disagree with the general principal, I think you guys are missing one critical factor - this guy did NOT come from a poor family, with poor upbringing. He's got a bloody degree in business management, for chrissakes! He's been schooled in being responsible and managing money. This is something that kids that come from poor families DON'T get in their upbringing, which puts them at a crucial disadvantage.
Furthermore, he pointed out that the homeless shelters really did try to help people get back on their feet, rather than just providing free shelter and food, which is evidence that at least some of the social safety net works. How can someone possibly learn to be responsible, save money, etc etc when they're raised by bling bling advertising and not parents? It's like cutting someone's leg off then expecting them to walk. Doesn't work that way.
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Current: 1987 911 cabrio Past: 1972 911t 3.0, 1986 911, 1983 944, 1999 Boxster |
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Gon fix it with me hammer
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That he made it , is great , it prooves that some people can pull themselves up by the bootstraps if in a position to do so
but it does not prove that "anyone" can make it like he did It's not clear if this kid is black, hispanic, or native american It is clear , he was educated, brought up with a skill-set he was able to put to good use hell, he wrote a book, so i assume he does have a way with words that makes him stand out from the real bums, that do not have his ability with language, like he does Maybe he even has a certain natural charm, that helped him in this ordeal, you can say what you want, but some people just manage to create luck based on their smile and way with people... i'm not making excuses for all "bums" but to claim that "anyone" can make it, despite their previous history , is just a big generalization .. Some people have the bad luck of being born in the town they were born, with the parents that they got, and the piss poor parenting or situation they started life with... And if you never learned to speak elegantly, if you never learned anything other then bad things, then eventually, you do get stuck with tunnelvision and for lack of a better word i'll invent one, tunnelbehaviour
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Stijn Vandamme EX911STARGA73EX92477EX94484EX944S8890MPHPINBALLMACHINEAKAEX987C2007 BIMDIESELBMW116D2019 |
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The Unsettler
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Quote:
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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Registered
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 816
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I have to agree with Christien.
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Registered
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,259
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Stijn,
good friend of mine & wife's boss, 10 siblings from the rural south 5 Very successful 5 either prison,coming out , drug's,on the dole ? I ask, 'some of us wanted more, the others didn't even try ' Rika |
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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So because of someone's unfortunate upbringing and not--as this article proves--that they can't do for themselves, we should allow them to suck off of the public teat indefinitely?
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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The Unsettler
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Pretty much yeah. Don't like it either so if you have a solution that will work I'm all ears. Seriously, not being sarcastic here.
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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Registered
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 816
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+ 1000 stomachmonkey.
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Did you get the memo?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 33,296
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I would argue that without a public teet, things would be much different. It would certainly provide some degree of motivation. Nobody would starve or freeze outside, there's plenty of church and charitable organizations that take care of the basics. But they wouldn't have an XBox either.
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‘07 Mazda RX8 Past: 911T, 911SC, Carrera, 951s, 955, 996s, 987s, 986s, 997s, BMW 5x, C36, C63, XJR, S8, Maserati Coupe, GT500, etc |
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The Unsettler
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Motivation to do what?
Get a job? Or to rob?
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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And I would argue that there are plenty of criminals on the public teat. Those that are inclined to commit crimes already do. Those that are comfortable in their station in life need a nudge--being made uncomfortable--to rejoin the ranks of productive members of society.
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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Registered
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Posts: 926
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If the public teet is still the same as 15 years ago ... then that is one of the problems.
The public teet is set so that if you go off you end up with going cold turkey. This means that it is better to stay on the teet and do nothing to improve your situation rather than trying to get one step ahead in life because once you cross the border of public help cuts off you end up at times in a harder postion than being on the dole. I don't think the dole is really that bad. People at times do really need an injection of cash. Public aid should be step based with a gradual reduction. On top of which, education should be part of the requirement to recieve cash. Basically get paid to go to school. Cut class = cut in money. Next provide people with a way to have an address, telephone service, email, shower, clothes that could be borrowed. Note, I am not necessarily saying a home. Many homeless can't be housed thereby having an address, a shower and clean clothes could help them go to job interviews. Once your on the street you only have weeks before the vicious cycle places you in a position that going for an interview is now blocked because you don't have a contact address ... thereby a bad hire. Just a few ideas.
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Carsten AKA Sapporo Guy ![]() 1982 SC -- US import it seems ... weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Gon fix it with me hammer
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but not all bums are bums because of lack of trying "Anyone" is a big generalization , that's all i'm saying my own sister, works in a sheltered workplace maybe her dad's genes, or lack of oxygen at birth, who's to say but she just has difficulties with things, she's not retarded, she's just not that smart, doesn't pick up things as fast we both had the same mother, same defunct upbringing, i won't go into details on that, but in retrospect, we got a ****ty deal i'm not crying about it, i'm doing ok, i am pretty sharp, and i find workarounds but my sister, she cannot find those workarounds for those problems and even if i give her the workarounds, they don't work for her if she were without family to check up on her, to help her out And if she were left to fend for her own, and no organization would help her out...She'd be easy prey for all sorts of bad cats, she'de be robbed blind, and screwed over till she was nothing but a puddle of misery and finally gave up ... If my sister and i would have had a stable home and upbrining she'de be a lot better off now, she would not have to overcome all the pent up frustration, the inability to socialize, to feel comfortable around people She wouldn't need to workaround unneeded problems, and just live a normal and more simple life , unlike now, where she has to fight life with hands tied behind her back If y'all say "anyone" can make it then i beg to differ, because i'm sure that there are people in the US like my sister, that don't have the abilities And i'm also sure that there are other categories of people who just don't know what we know, who can't think in terms of "one year", because they are busy thinking how they are going to make it through "this week" This kid, with 1 year, started off with 25 bucks, education, and a plan Maybe he can try the same thing, with 20 grand in heavy interest debt, and no education... dunno how he can simulate that, maybe Meth could work in that respect.... Maybe that would make the "anyone can do it" concept more realistic...
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Stijn Vandamme EX911STARGA73EX92477EX94484EX944S8890MPHPINBALLMACHINEAKAEX987C2007 BIMDIESELBMW116D2019 |
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Registered
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Posts: 926
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Hmmm, ok,
I think you guys (Chris and Matt) do have good points and very valid too. I think the problem is that there are hard timers and those that really are down on their luck. "hard timers" being those who really don't want to do anything because they prefer the free help with no need to change or do better. Could the hard timers be the ones that you guys are referring too? So, that would mean the system needs to filter each by their needs and adjust the methods to deal with each. Yes, criminals exist at all levels of the social scale. But I think cold turkey methods could provoke people enough to just switch over to praying on people rather than praying on free handouts.
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Carsten AKA Sapporo Guy ![]() 1982 SC -- US import it seems ... weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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