Are we a FREE country?

[YTNUKLR]

Tell that to Proudhon.. you hate the French anyway, right?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

sure you can, you just can't wear it into someone else's business if they ask you to remove it....

Dang it, I can't get away from you can I? I know technically you may be right, but still think it's a totally overblown "BFD" and common sense should prevail on such occasions .

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by KC911

Dang it, I can't get away from you can I? I know technically you may be right, but still think it's a totally overblown "BFD" and common sense should prevail on such occasions .

In my experience, common sense is as aptly named as jumbo shrimp or military intelligence

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by snowman

Are we a FREE country? What is a Free country? What is Freedom worth?

We are no longer a Free country. Mandatory health care? Is this freedom? Mandatory govt sponsored school? Mandatory seat belts? Mandatory this and that? What is freedom, what is a free country? Freedom of association? Not here, you must accept someone that just rankles your moral code and work with them in your own shop! You must rent to a room mate that is queer and against all your moral principles, or someone that is of an other race that hates your race!
You cannot go together with a bunch of like friends and oppose a political party within 30 or 60 days of an election! Is this freedom of speech!
You cannot possess a gun in the DC, yet the 2nd amendment states otherwise.
One of the primary reasons for the 2nd amendment is to prevent government form doing exactly what they are trying to do, prevent freedom, free speech, free association, and freedom to elect a true representative.

This country is no longer a free country. Why dosen't much matter, it just isn't a free country.

Freedom was once worth dying for. Whats it worth now? A communist, no take that back, two communists, running for president. The opponent is a pseudo communist himself. He is after all the one that is responsible for limitations of free speech that are unprecedented. McCain Feingold is about as commie as it gets.

Heaven help America and the USA.

I agree with most of what you said there... and then...

Originally Posted by snowman

They all tend to form in the big cities. What I propose is that everyone wishing to live in a big city, succeed from the US and leave the real Americans alone. That is the only solution that seems viable at this point.

Hicks in the hinterlands, the only real Americans.

WTF? You live in So Cal? Oh yeah that is the hicks in the hinterlands.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by snowman

I demand the right to make stupid decisions and even die as a result, thats part of what freedom means. I want play grounds that present some actual danger to our children. You fall from the monkey bars and break a leg, so what! thats part of freedom.

I just got back from a vacation in Mexico... people driving ATV's on the beach without helmets... the walkways along the waterfront and marinas just dropped off six or eight feet to the rocks, no fence, no wall, no railing, no yellow line, nothing... just a sheer drop down to the rocks... and no one seemed to be getting hurt.
How do they do it?

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

People vote for these lawmakers and they do so because of the spin and the story. If anyone truly voted in people who deserved it rather than the gloss it might be a different country. At some point we forgot about reason and became a country that has bad memories and victims of the senseless trash coming out of the TV, print and radio.

We have no one to blame but ourselves. We have been granted the right to change things if we wish yet most all of us complain into our Starbucks and pay $3+/gl for gas.

At some point things will go critical. I just hope it isn't too late to act when they do so.

I CAN'T HEAR YOU (fingers in ears) LA LA LA LA LA...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

In my experience, common sense is as aptly named as jumbo shrimp or military intelligence

Isn't that the truth! I just saw on our local newspaper's web site, that the case regarding the 78 year old man who was arrested here at the Obama rally (supporting the troops, arrested for "assault" on a cop) is being revisited due to the public outcry. Our Greensboro Police Dept. should be ashamed of themselves for defending their overreaction, and it's almost a certainty that the charges will be dropped. It isn't often, but sometimes we get it right in the end.

[Tobra]

when they get it right it tends to be by accident

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by KC911

It isn't often, but sometimes we get it right in the end.

I feel like we have been getting it right in the end for years!

[Tobra]

You mean right in the wrong end

[MRM]

OK, if America is not a free country, what do you want to do that you can't? I'm just trying to understand. Sure, I can't do everything I want, but I can say anything I want (other than shouting fire in a crowded theater) I can live where I want, travel where I want to, write as obnoxiously as Wayne will let me on my favorite web site. Any product we can imagine is available to us in any stores that cater to our every whim. Sure, we don't have perfect freedom if by that you mean the ability to do anything you want whenever you want to do it, but that is anarchy. Not a bad political system, but completely unworkable for building a civilization that supports a standard of living. Hence the social compact that has evolved in America. Speeding is an issue of individual freedom. But driving at unregulated speeds causes accidents that shifts the cost of speeding from the speeder to the rest of society. Not wearing seat belts is an individual choice. But not wearing seat belts results in more injuries and health care expense that is borne by the rest of society. Drinking and driving is a right endowed on us by our Creator. But drunks kills themselves and other innocent people at high enough rates to increase all of our auto insurance premiums and it infringes on my inalienable right to use the public roads without getting run into by a drunk. Nothing can be a more personal decision than to dump used motor oil in your back yard. After all, you own the property, right? But when that oil gets into the drinking water supply it causes cancer for years until the rest of society spends millions to clean it up.

To the extent that someones' stupid decisions shift costs from them to someone else, society has the right to restrict the ability to make that stupid decision. That's not a restriction on individual freedom, that's protecting the rights of individuals. We all have a say in which laws are adopted to restrict which particular stupid activities. That is freedom and that is what we have.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I feel like we have been getting it right in the end for years!

I stand corrected

[Tobra]

I think I have a right to bear arms, but I can't legally do that in California. There are a lot of laws here that probably violate the US Constitution, and what the DEA does with the medical marijuana situation here is definitely unconstitutional. I complain to my "elected" officials who ostensibly represent me, but it has been a long time since I had any true representation in the US Senate. DiFi and BBoxer certainly have done nothing but make me angry

The government no longer protects the rights of individuals, that is the big problem.

[snowman]

Just because society wants to scrape me off the road if I crash, does NOT obligate me to society. If I hurt someone else I can be sued for damages, I pay, not society. I may need to show financial responsibility to drive, thats ok, it does not restrict freedom like speed laws do.

Bottom line, just because society CHOOSES to incur a cost to "help" me it does NOT obligate me, a supposedly free person to society. I did not ask for or want society's so called help because society is attaching strings to that help, I choose to reject that help with strings attached.
When I choose to help someone who is in need, eg an auto accident, I expect NOTHING in return for that help. The alternative is what we have with govt today. We choose to help you, therefore we own you.

[K. Roman]

There is always room in Montana.

Originally Posted by snowman

Just because society wants to scrape me off the road if I crash, does NOT obligate me to society. If I hurt someone else I can be sued for damages, I pay, not society. I may need to show financial responsibility to drive, thats ok, it does not restrict freedom like speed laws do.

Bottom line, just because society CHOOSES to incur a cost to "help" me it does NOT obligate me, a supposedly free person to society. I did not ask for or want society's so called help because society is attaching strings to that help, I choose to reject that help with strings attached.
When I choose to help someone who is in need, eg an auto accident, I expect NOTHING in return for that help. The alternative is what we have with govt today. We choose to help you, therefore we own you.

[KFC911]

Just an update to the local case that I referred to earlier. It would appear that calmer heads have indeed prevailed in the assault case against this 79 yr. old patriotic American:

GREENSBORO -- The assault charge against a 79-year-old man called the "Patriotic Grandpa'' was dropped this morning by Guilford District Attorney Doug Henderson.

The controversial case ended with a whisper as Alexander Kohanowich stood with his attorney Seth Cohen in a Greensboro courtroom.

The case was never discussed in open court.

Kohanowich said afterward he was happy with the result. He would like for the city to apologize and pay for his legal expenses. But he has no plans to sue.

"I love this city," he said outside the courtroom. "I had a choice to move to Greensboro and I certainly have no hard feelings." (Listen to an interview)

The decision ends a controversy that started more than a month ago in the grassy median beside the Greensboro Coliseum complex.

On March 26, when Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama came to town, Kohanowich stood in the median across from the War Memorial Auditorium and held three signs about patriotism and supporting the troops.

article truncated....

[Porsche-O-Phile]

America is
***POST CENSORED BY THE NEW GOVERNMENT MINISTRY FOR REASONABLE SPEECH AND THOUGHT REGULATION***
free for crying out loud!!!