Coincidence?

[kstar]

Probably shouldn't put blk911 in the PR department.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Rick:

I sincerely don't think Mike or anyone else who was asking for proof would reject real evidence which might prove a deity.

This airplane thing does not even begin to approach any semblance of evidence of a deity and serves as a very poor example to gage one's threshold of proof, IMO.

I believe your apparent assumption, based on this example, that me or most everyone else who has participated in these discussions would automatically reject any bona-fide evidence of a creator out of hand, is incorrect.

FWIW.

Ok, I accept that. Can you tell me of a scenario that you would accept as proof then? Would it take an actual appearance of God to you personally or would you accept something less?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

When a few friends and I go up against 300 Amonites and we are victorious, that would be proof.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by blk911

Jim,

If by another one, you mean a beliver and follower of Jesus Christ, you bet! Proud of it, wish you were too.

Care to join me?

No thanks. I'm really enjoying my pathetic and empty life.

Since you don't believe in coincidence, I do hope your profession doesn't in any way involve probability theory or statistics.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

When a few friends and I go up against 300 Amonites and we are victorious, that would be proof.

Shaun, where are you going to come up with these 300 Amonites? Are they available on eBay?

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Ok, I accept that. Can you tell me of a scenario that you would accept as proof then? Would it take an actual appearance of God to you personally or would you accept something less?

I'm pretty easy, Rick. How about the sun coming up in the West tomorrow morning? Or the day after if that's too hurried.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Shaun, where are you going to come up with these 300 Amonites? Are they available on eBay?

Are you kidding? Amonites are everywhere in these parts. I had to call Orkin 3 times last week. Can't get rid of the little bastards. And man do they itch!

[Jim Richards]

crabs?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I thought they were Amonites. that's what the priest told me anyway.

[Jim Richards]

You're no alter boy, are you?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

My being Sin personified has it's drawbacks. the Church politely declined my application.

[Jim Richards]

Well, you could have a future in politics.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I DO have a future in politics.

[Jim Richards]

Hillary looking for muscle?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a ball gag actually. She's tired of running the show and wants someone to take control.

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok, so Shaun requires a lopsided military victory. Easy enough, Gulf War I. Over 30,000 Iraqi casualties versus about 145 US casualties. Congrats Shaun, you are now a believer.

Jim, however requires a reversal of the laws of physics....

[kstar]

OK, I think I answered this "proof" question before, but I will have a go at it again. I don't remember what I said initially, but maybe this will be a more refined answer.

Jim's "proof" might be accomplished by a highly evolved, advanced being or group of beings, which I would not define as "God".

BTW, I put the odds of the existence of ludicrously advanced beings much higher than a supernatural deity. Though, their "powers" might appear magic to us just as our technology might appear magic to Cro-Magnon man.

Proof of an Abrahamic God would have to be specific, IMO. I think a series of very detailed prophecies which came true, indisputably, as described would probably do it - these prophecies would be communicated to me by direct brain input - telepathy. That's how "He" works sometimes, yes?

When I think about that answer, I guess anything defined as "God" could probably do the same, not just the Abrahamic God. I'm also assuming the lowly, highly-evolved beings would not have the ability to predict the future.

I think the personal telepathic communication of detailed prophecies which later indisputably came true would most likely make me a believer. Of course, no one would believe me, so I would write the prophecies down after they happened and then tell everyone the true story . . . and everyone would think I was crazy. And then, a few thousand years later . . .

My 2¢

Now bring on the "gotchas".

Best,

[Nathans_Dad]

Hrm, interesting. So you would have to have direct communication and be a prophet for a God you do not believe in...

Another case of direct communication as proof for you.

Ok, I can accept that. So again, can we stop asking people to "prove" to you (you being the group you) that God exists since the only thing you would accept as proof is if God directly spoke to you and made you a prophet?

[kstar]

I think it would be great if he/she/it would just reveal itself. But, if according to certain texts and their certain interpretations, when this happens it will already be too late for poor souls like me.

Rick, that was just one example of proof I would accept personally. I am sure there are others I could think up that would be satisfactory.

I think if there is a God, it could do without the burden and absurdity of religion, but that's just my opinion. I think such a God would want us to question its existence, learn by observing this world with the tools we have been provided and be good just because it's the right thing to do.

You did get where I was going with my post, yes?

Good night to you - I must turn off my internets.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Ok, so Shaun requires a lopsided military victory. Easy enough, Gulf War I. Over 30,000 Iraqi casualties versus about 145 US casualties. Congrats Shaun, you are now a believer.

Jim, however requires a reversal of the laws of physics....

Not a big reader of the stories of the early Israelites, are you Rick? the proper analogy, from a size of force perspective, would have Iraq winning Gulf I because God helped him to do so. Same with all the early Israelite victories over larger forces.