I just returned from the Phoenix gun buy-back.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

So if a law abiding citizen wants to sell his gun to another law abiding citizen, in PA you have to go to a gunshop and get a background check?

And you call this "good gun laws??"

Sniper, thats pure BS and not needed IMHO.

Yes, i call this an absolutely good idea and very sane "gun control." Background checks are about the only gun laws i support.
Rick could have been a mass-murderer for all the people that were selling him those guns knew. A quick, instant background check removes all doubt in a mere couple minutes.

I wholeheartedly support the NRA background check laws.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Stay in CA then, pray the cops keep you safe and enjoy a state gov't. that tries only to disarm the sheeple.

Precisely.

Do i wish i lived in a society where no one needed a gun, for any reason, ever?

Yes.

Will i ever.

No.

I actually prefer swords, to be honest.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Yes, i call this an absolutely good idea and very sane "gun control." Background checks are about the only gun laws i support.
Rick could have been a mass-murderer for all the people that were selling him those guns knew. A quick, instant background check removes all doubt in a mere couple minutes.

I wholeheartedly support the NRA background check laws.

Riiiighhhttt. And I suppose you support universal gun registration too, so the gubmint knows whom to go after first when they want to confiscate guns. How else, even with NICS checks, would the cops know how many times a gun has changed hands since its original point of sale? As it is now, FFL's must keep records for 10 yrs. and can shred the paperwork thereafter. If a crime gun is recovered, the cops might be able to trace it back to its original point of FFL-sale. Just the same, if I were a criminal and needed guns, I'd be happy to hand my pager # to some of these folks and conduct the deal out of sight of the police.

NICS checks are feel-good, do-little-or-nothing measures that only apply to honest folks who buy from FFL's or extremely stupid criminals who buy from FFL's. BTW, did you know that the law states that even if a NICS check doesn't give an immediate ok, the sale is still approved after (IIRC) three days unless a good reason comes up for denying it? Why shouldn't I be able to buy guns on the street if I'm able to offer more than the cops? Oh, and did you know that I don't even have to go through a NICS check when I buy from an FFL now because CCW holders are exempt from that in AZ? No way around the fact that criminals will always get guns and gun laws only apply to honest folks. Keep a criminal in prison, prevent recidivism and they won't be able to buy guns again. I don't particularly object to NICS checks, since my real surname is the most uncommon one in the U.S. (yes, really), so I always sail through and am happy to shop for other guns while the store is waiting for an answer. Anyway, I no longer have to deal with NICS checks at all, as an AZ CCW holder.

[3.2 CAB]

Or what about the provisions for a ace to face sale of the long weapons. These are not "kept track of" like the handguns are. I even talked to several ATF field agents and the district agent in charge, and was told that the long guns, didn't really make a blip, on their radar screens. But that do watch handguns, VERY CLOSELY. Just some additional info.

[many944s]

I'll say it again....
Thank god I live in Indiana.
-Nick

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Riiiighhhttt. And I suppose you support universal gun registration too.

I REPEAT: THE ONLY GUN LAWS I FAVOR ARE INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS AT TIME OF PURCHASE.

This is an entirely rational and reasonable thing to support.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by dmoolenaar

I'm all for folks exercising their right to own guns. I think it's sad that folks feel so scared that they need to carry a gun. It ain't the wild west no more but then I don't live in AZ either. I'm starting to wonder if it's a good idea to go there for vacation these days...

There's no more violent crime in North County....

Oops...one last one yesterday: http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/news/breaking/2008/06/shooting_in_escondido.html

But no more after this one!

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Stay in CA then, pray the cops keep you safe and enjoy a state gov't. that tries only to disarm the sheeple.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

[pwd72s]

Too bad Zimbabwe doesn't have a 2nd amendment...

[3.2 CAB]

Rick, the CCW works the same way in MS. You don't have to go through any checks when buying in the state, from a FFL holder, or anyone else for that matter. I would believe the reason behind this is because all of the major crap and background checks that were done, to obtain the CCW in the first place.
Also, most background checks will not show, if someone is mentally unstable, and unfit to have a weapon. Plus, when buying from a dealer(FFL), is someone that is mentally off, actually admit to this when filling out the "yellow pages" if they do, THAT, would be CRAZY. That would also include the crooks, that would be honest enough, to answer all of the questions truthfully. How many of them do you think would be that honest???

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I REPEAT: THE ONLY GUN LAWS I FAVOR ARE INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS AT TIME OF PURCHASE.

This is an entirely rational and reasonable thing to support, IMHO, despite the FACT that it has practically no impact whatsoever on restricting criminals from getting handguns.

fixed it for you

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by many944s

i'll Say It Again....
Thank God I Live In Indiana.
-nick

+1

[Rick Lee]

Hey, AZ ain't bad either. What kinda go me was these guys I was hanging out with yesterday, wearing buttons and carrying signs as if gun owners in AZ are somehow oppressed. Hey, it could always be better, but in AZ we have it about as good as gunowners can have it.

[VincentVega]

How many of them do you think would be that honest???

I was filling out some paperwork recently and came to the page with all the questions. Basically 1) are you a criminal? 2) are you crazy? 3) are you telling the truth? .... What a waste of time. Sort of like the old airport question, has your bag been in your possession....

The guy behind the counter looked at me kinda funny, I guess I was the first one to read the questions! Believe it or not, there is an answer key to the questions, and it's not too far away.

[on2wheels52]

Rick
"FFL's must keep records for 10 yrs. and can shred the paperwork thereafter"

I hadn't caught wind of that. Was there a circular on it I missed?

"If a crime gun is recovered, the cops might be able to trace it back to its original point of FFL-sale."

No doubt you have an idea of the amount of detective work it would take if it changed hands even once after the original purchase.
Maybe big city gun shops are called on to do gun traces. I can only recall doing one in 23 years.
Jim

[on2wheels52]

Rick
"FFL's must keep records for 10 yrs. and can shred the paperwork thereafter"

I hadn't caught wind of that. Was there a circular on it I missed?

"If a crime gun is recovered, the cops might be able to trace it back to its original point of FFL-sale."

No doubt you have an idea of the amount of detective work it would take if it changed hands even once after the original purchase.
Maybe big city gun shops are called on to do gun traces. I can only recall doing one in 23 years.
Jim

[Rick Lee]

I think my old FFL in VA told me about the records-keeping requirement. He did a lot of transfers and all were out of his house. He had it all neatly organized and, as a matter of principle, shredded everything as soon as it was 10 yrs. old. Every time he called in my driver's license for a NICS check I suppose the state could have kept a record of it. But he never had to tell them anything about the gun I was buying. Just my personal info.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by 3.2 CAB

Rick, the CCW works the same way in MS. You don't have to go through any checks when buying in the state, from a FFL holder, or anyone else for that matter. I would believe the reason behind this is because all of the major crap and background checks that were done, to obtain the CCW in the first place.

That's how it was here for a while, but they changed it.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Tobra

fixed it for you

You did absolutely nothing of the kind.

Criminal back ground checks at time of gun purchases is just plain common ******* sense. No criminal background check= a convicted double murderer can just walk into a gun store and buy a trunkful of guns.

Seriously, the stupid among the righties, my erstwhile allies, is HIGH in this thread.

What kind of genius could possibly oppose an instant criminal background check? It DOES work, applicants ARE TURNED DOWN, arrests ARE MADE as a result.

And because of the instant background check, WHICH THE NRA PUSHED FOR, arrests can actually be made on the scene, in real time. IT DOES HAPPEN.

Originally Posted by Chris Martin

I was filling out some paperwork recently and came to the page with all the questions. Basically 1) are you a criminal? 2) are you crazy? 3) are you telling the truth? .... What a waste of time. Sort of like the old airport question, has your bag been in your possession.... .

Since apparently none of you are smart enough to figure it out, that section exists so that if you fraudulently fill it out, and later get caught in some gun (or other) crime, they can look at the application and say "GOTCHA", then they can slap another charge on your ass- Fraudulently obtaining a firearm or fraudulently filing out governmental forms, etc, etc.

Seriously people, HULL-O.

[on2wheels52]

"What kind of genius could possibly oppose an instant criminal background check? It DOES work, applicants ARE TURNED DOWN, arrests ARE MADE as a result.

And because of the instant background check, WHICH THE NRA PUSHED FOR, arrests can actually be made on the scene, in real time. IT DOES HAPPEN."

Tomorrow I'll check the number of 'denied's I've had since the NICS program started, I'll go a WAG at 50. I assure you no arrests have been made on the scene at my shop, though I'll admit to a curiosity as to what legal harm each denied applicant went through. I can recall a few occassions when the NICS person giving me the 'denial' news (almost always some time removed from the initial application, and the applicant no longer waiting with me) would ask for additional information that wasn't given at the first contact.

"Since apparently none of you are smart enough to figure it out, that section exists so that if you fraudulently fill it out, and later get caught in some gun (or other) crime, they can look at the application and say "GOTCHA", then they can slap another charge on your ass- Fraudulently obtaining a firearm or fraudulently filing out governmental forms, etc, etc."

That's about how I see it, although again I would think anyone getting 'denied' should be subject to such prosecution and I fail to see this happening. I assume the feds have bigger fish to fry.
Jim