That's F1 in a nutshell.

Recall that the tifosi wanted Massa's head at the beginning of the season, then he won a few races and they settled down. Now he isn't winning and they want his head again. Raikonen seems to get a free pass being reigning F1 champ.

It's as if the fans (of any team) are constantly saying the following quote to the drivers:

"That's nice, but what have you done for me today?"

chris - truer words could not be spoken.

I was sooo pissed at Massa by race end and only calmed down when I found out he was having brake issues.

I do not think Hamilton has the talent of Massa or Schumacher, but I could eat my words 2 or 3 season from now. I personally think we have a JV on our hands maybe I am wrong.

Jim, I am a Massa fan, but nontheless think that Lewis is gonna be better for the rest of his career then Massa.

Better then schumacher though? I think not. I'll wait till he earns 8 drivers championships.

Funny, I've been thinking that since last year...

I think Massa knew Ham was WAY faster, & let him by without too much of a fight. Was it a dirty pass? I didn't think it was that bad. Ham knew he had another car to pass & was probably a little hectic.

I think Massa is like Mika Hakkinen in that he is fast in a perfect car, but not great at all in a car that he is not comfortable with.

Hammy is still developing as a driver. All we are doing is guessing at what he can or can't do. I do see improvement in his car control though, and attribute that to growing confidence.

No driver, no driver worth any wins at all is ever "humble". Humility is required for wisdom and grace, and being a better person. But humility won't make you a faster driver.

Massa is a naturally fast, ballsy driver. I think he has less feel for car control than Raikkonen. Schumacher was a guy who was not as naturally fast, but he was damn smart, probably the smartest driver of his time.

What surprised me about Germany was the pass on Massa, sure, but the way Massa tried to re-pass Hammy with a half hearted move, then ended back up in the dirt again. I expected Massa to come with more than that. In the end, Ferrari showed up with less car than McLaren.

I see f1 as who can keep the car on the edge the longest without loosing it. Schumacher was the best. Hamilton may reach that level. He seems very comfortable at the edge. I'd like to meet anyone who can tell me his rookie season wasn't amazing.

Depends on who you ask ;)

My take is that he was groomed heavely by RD, given every advantage and ran a car last year that was setup by a two time world champ. I'd almost expect it. To me he was a major source of annoyance. But, I will give him this, he gave us a pretty large wrench in the championship and made Kimi's eventual win all that more special. So for that, thanks Lewis.

rusnak and mule: I'd have to agree very much with both of your guys' last posts there.

Anything more than that is just fan's personal preference for a car brand or a driver whose personality they seem to like... What I find somewhat interesting how the cars change so dramatically (according to the drivers) from race to race. I know a lot has to do with all the dis-assembly and re-assembly and changes they make between races. It essentially is a "new" car each race...

Read Seric's response then read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Villeneuve


Lets see the last 1.2 of this season how it pans out. Lewis wins 2 races and Ferrari struggles for 2 races and suddenly we have Lewis as world champ.

We just passed the 1/2 way point of the season with only 7 points between the top 3.

It will be VERY interesting to see how this season progresses and to be honest, even as a Ferrari fan (I know, I know, you probably could not tell) this has been the most entertaining season I can remember.

McLaren apparently has another set of paddles behind the wheel that allows the driver to change the engine mapping so that the ideal torque curve is present for each gear. This innovation will either soon be copied by everybody else or banned by the FIA.

Source of this information?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/2436986/German-Grand-Prix-Steering-clear-of-trouble.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ed/gdfnxfx.jpg

That is why I like F1. They always come up with a new way to beat the rules.

Its beating the rules when any team other than Ferrari does it. When Ferrari does it, its cheating.

Massa should've had the widest car on the track... mentally he's too weak. I mean look at him he's all sweet and nice.. Only the greatest were true sharks (Lauda, Senna, Prost, Shumy).
What a wimp... I'm still upset. He basically pulled over and open the door and gave the best line.. WTF!
Massa does not belong on a red car, just like Rubens. Bring Alonso and he'll show them...

I think you got that backwards...

:D

Could you imagine alonso and kimi teammates though?

That would have taken some really sustained and rude blocking to keep Hamilton behind for the rest of the race. Massa knew it was inevitable.

Massa could've stayed on the right lane to keep the apex. He didn't need to move at all.. Why did he pull to the left?
Maybe it was inevitable but he should've put up a fight! Just like the commentators: Montemazolo won't be happy and probably wondering if this is the guy that can bring the championship.

Massa needs to show the teeth..

F1 sucks. there, I said it. The cars are ugly and suck. the drivers are boring and suck. After so many years of watching F1 I have come to the conclusion I don't care anymore. These cars are horrid. The drivers are boring. The tracks, my god, emasculate them some more. Where is the modern Arnoux and Gilles for gods sake? Laffite, Andretti, Peterson? Lots of passing this race? Give me a break. The Corvettes inthe ALMS had a better battle, and they were the only fricken cars in their class and they were both penalized twice for rough driving and banging into each other. At least they gave a damn, not like these F1 boys. I must hold my position for points! Pure crap, good job Bernie. Might as well watch the IRL race. And for the record the Grand Am blows. Ugly NASCAR inspired POS's. Where is the thinking that brought us Vettes vs. 934's and 935's and DeKon Monza's? Where are the v-12 vs v-8 f-1 cars? Turbos? Racing sucks today because you are penalized for being smart. No wonder vintage racing has such a huge following. Huge motors with drivers that had huge balls with cars that "should" work. Flame away, rant over. BTW go Ferrari.

way to keep the 70s alive dude

Some good points ;

Those 'vettes showed me something last weekend. That was very cool to see.
Too bad there is no other challengers in that class - imagine what THAT would be like !
And the Acura/Porsche battles are getting better and better.

Someone said it before - F1 needs to bring the drivers more visibly in to it.
Maybe a little more '70's, or even 60's attitude would be interesting.
Getting rid of traction control is a good step in the right direction.
Hamilton seems to be the best driver out there but makes some pretty young mistakes.
Too bad Shumi couldn't have stuck around and then we would know how good the kid really is. Would have been good for Hamilton.

Race of the weekend though ?

HOW SICK WAS THAT MOTO GP ?????!!!!!!!

+1

I do not think anybody can deny Hamilton has talent.

Wether or not he was copying Alonso's set ups he was certainly able to stay close (if not go faster) than the 2 times word champion last year.

Anybody here remembers Schumacher's and Senna's (or Prost's for that matter) rookie seasons? A couple of nice races in a Jordan and some funambolic laps on a rain soaked Monaco GP in a Toleman....

It would take Senna some years to become WC, and Schumacher had already quite an experience with the Sauber-Mercedes team in the Sport-Prototype racing.

Hamilton has certainly had some doors opened for him by Dennis but he's quick. He needs to mature, but he has the ambition, the car, the talent and the age to challenge Mr Schumacher's record, without no competion clauses on his contract ;)

'Hamilton nearly crashed into the Safety Car'

Ramming speed?

If he keeps this up, nasty nicknames will start surfacing in the paddock...

Come on now buddy, how much have they been fined?

Who had movable front aero for the 1st 4-5 races this season before they were told to secure it?

When Ferrari tried that stunt they lasted ONE race.

I'm sorry...who had the flexible underbody again? ;)

And how many races did it last?

And who had the plans to it to know it was their?

Yeah but how much has Ferrari been fined?

You keep asking that question, do you even understand the severity of what McLaren did?



In addition to their fine (50 mil) their drivers should have been removed from the WC race.

If Ferrari was caught with the other teams car plans all hell would have broken loose.


I do not know why everyone feels Bernie and Max are favoring Ferrari the big draw to the sport is now a McLaren driver and going with the same philosophy that Schumacher and Ferrari got preferential treatment the same argument can now be made for McLaren and Lewis.

[QUOTE=Jims5543;4076664]You keep asking that question, do you even understand the severity of what McLaren did?



In addition to their fine (50 mil) their drivers should have been removed from the WC race.

/QUOTE]

And they were... come on... last year it was a farce that was kept alive just not to lose all the sponsors.

McLaren does not draw the crowds, money and popularity. Ferrari does. An F1 without Ferrari is nothing.

This is why they were the solitary signitor of the new concordia pact (eventually subscribed by all the others) and this is why they dictate the rules.

Sad to disagree with you .... F1 without Ferrari....a couple of seasons of fuss then nothing....a historical note....afterall other names whose power was a influential have come and gone....Maserati.....Lotus... come to mind...

For a couple of years the sponsors would be miffed and pissed off.. that is the reason why the FIA have been so vulnerable to Ferrari for so long (Enzo was the master at it) and sadly old men like Bernie and Max have not moved on....the newer generation don't particularly care whether Lewis drives a McLaren, Ferrari or a BMW... they want to see HIM win...

The overall balance is different...a Williams or Red Bull is not the interest... the man driving it is.....the disappearance of owners as characters (Ken Tyrell, Bruce McLaren, Enzo, ACBC etc) has made the company less interesting and allowed dull as ditch water drivers to shine.
Lewis may win a dozen WDC but he will never have the eccentric character of a James Hunt or the purpose of a Gilles Villeneuve, he will however go into the record books as a 'better' driver...

I think you both raise some very good points. I'd have to say you are both partially right. By the way, you forgot Lotus and Colin Chapman.

In the drivers list you forgot Nikki Lauda, Prost, Senna, Keke Rossberg, as guys who drew the crowds with their personalities and ability. Hamilton is in my opinion, still a work in progress. We simply do not know his trajectory because he is still so new. He has one and a half seasons total in F1.

As for Ferrari having influence on FIA, only someone who is naive would say they don't. Do a roll call of the FIA board as to how many ex-Ferrari guys are voting members.

I guess I am naive then. I see the new wonderboy Lewis Hamilton being the Tiger Woods of F1 and I think the FIA knows this.

you might have a point with Hammy, Jim. But that has no influence on the FIA at all. They are a bunch of crusty insiders who do what they wanna do. Why do you think Mosely kept his job? Clearly the outside world is not their concern.

We agree!SmileWavy

R,

I think I mentionned Lotus... and ACBC is Colin Chapman...his initials as they appear on the Lotus badge..

I'd say that Lauda, Prost, Senna were characters but their success in terms of number of WDC makes that a lessor aspect of their careers.

Rosberg...well his 160mph(average) lap of Silverstone, followed by a quick fag (cigarette) whilst perched on the wheel of his Williams in the pit makes him part of that group..

Jim,

LH is no Tiger Woods... he brings neither new exceptional never seen before talent to the game.. look at JV's first two seasons to see what can be achieved..and what LH should at least aim to match...nor a new level of professionalism.. MS set the drivers bar very very high in that department, arguably rasing it higher even than Senna.

LH's career to date shows no sign of originality, flair or innovation. He is very very good, with the potential to become a multiple WDC...but its the result of dedication and hardwork following others.. not leading them...that is the difference.....a fundamental one.

Tiger is a leader... he has changed the game, raised the bar etc etc as well as having a massive commercial/ media skill set. Perhaps it is in this domain that LH can find common ground.