Question for the gun guys...

[HardDrive]

PM me.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

Personally I don't think I'd want to buy a gun FTF unless it was from someone I knew reasonably well or at least had a copy of some documentation showing who they are, where they live, etc. You never know what you might be getting into.

Depends on what you're selling. I think the last one I sold in a parking lot was my boyhood single shot .22 to a guy older than me. Not much use for that gun other than teaching a kid how to shoot safely. I've done a few trades recently, but they were with folks who had high post counts on our local gun bbs, just about everyone on there has a CCW and your name is more than mud if you try to screw someone there. Plenty of cops and other LEO types there who can make life difficult for scheisters. And that BBS is how this cop found me who wants to buy my Commander next week.

[jriera]

Anytown + Parking Lot + Gun Show = serious chance to be a 'guest' in a Federal penitentiary for a while

Usually you can find more ATF agents in the parking lot than inside the Gun Show

Regarding FTF, just be sure of the local laws and who is the person selling

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Dottore

So if I understand this correctly, in those states (above) , my German tourist might not even be asked to produce any ID for the seller (in a private sale).

In other words the seller is not required to lodge a copy of the buyers ID with any relevant authority.

Is that about right?

Actually, the requirements are the same. I am not allowed to sell a firearm to felon, etc. It is MY responsibility to make sure the person is not a felon. For this reason, I've only done FTF transactions in Texas with other CHL holders, which is more definitive than a NICS check.

If the person commited a crime with the firearm, or was found with it, etc, and they said I sold it to them, I would also be presecuted with a crime.

As a practical matter, if a non-resident alien wanted a firearm, he could easily get one, on the black market. This is exactly where all of our criminals get their firearms. Ot he could get a legal person to do a straw purchase.

Finally, I do not think you need a green card for purchase. At least as I've read the gun laws of Texas, you need to be a state resident for 90 days. I believe any visa could used. Not that I've had a friend try. I expect most gun stores would probably decline to sell, because they would be afraid to sell.

Where are you going with this, Dot?

[on2wheels52]

"Are there states in the US where someone who is not a US citizen or permanent resident etc. is able to legally purchase a firearm over the counter?"

The 4473 form has that provision. Question 11 (l) asks "Are you a nonimmigrant alien?"
Question 12 asks "If you are a nonimmiagrant alien, do you fall within any of the exceptions set forth in the instructions?"
Those exceptions are either a valid US hunting license/permit or a waiver from the Attorney General of the US.

"Which states are the slackest on these requirements?"

It seems we're all in the same boat, I suppose some states have additional requirements in addition to the federal ones.

"Could, for example, a tourist go into a gun shop and purchase a firearm, no questions asked?"

No. 20c (for the licensee) "All Aliens: Type and dates of documents that would establish 90-day residency."
20d "Nonimmigrant Aliens Must Provide: Type of documentation showing an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition."

I can't imagine many firearms are transferred under these provisions. I know none of my 20,000 transfers have.
Jim

[Rick Lee]

I keep telling my wife that, now that she has a green card, she can buy guns for presents for me. But she hasn't done it yet. WTF?

[David]

Originally Posted by jriera

Anytown + Parking Lot + Gun Show = serious chance to be a 'guest' in a Federal penitentiary for a while

Usually you can find more ATF agents in the parking lot than inside the Gun Show

Regarding FTF, just be sure of the local laws and who is the person selling

Not if it's legal. Depends on the state. I'm assuming of course the buyer is not a convicted felon because then different laws would apply.

[Rick Lee]

Around here the ATF goons only go after the idiots and leave the real criminals alone. They usually approach non-FFL sellers at gun shows, some with vendor tables and some just walking around wearing a "for sale" sign on their back, carrying a gun. They start off with some story about being from CA or buying for a friend, both of which should be immediate deal killers to anyone with half a brain. Once in a while though, they come across some well-meaning, albeit very naiive, guy just trying to get rid of some junk he had laying around the house. And then they flash the badge, tell him to come with them and book him. I'd never fall for such tactics, but if they ever tried to get me to follow them, I'd scream at the top of my lungs and point to the guy "UNDERCOVER ATF AGENT RIGHT HERE!!!!"

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Are there states in the US where someone who is not a US citizen or permanent resident etc. is able to legally purchase a firearm over the counter??

Which states are the slackest on these requirements?

Could, for example, a tourist go into a gun shop and purchase a firearm, no questions asked?

My interest here is purely academic (I hasten to add).

Bump

So, what was the reason for asking this?

[Az911]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

I don't know how as all the states do a criminal background check which requires a social security number. The difference between the states is how long the check takes. Here in Missouri they do it over the phone. From the time I pick out the gun to out the door is all of 10 minutes.

Wrong, you do not have to put a SSN down when filling out a 4473 it is optional.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Bump

So, what was the reason for asking this?

Nothing sinister.

The issue comes up in a novel I am writing. I was looking for verisimilitude.

[Rick Lee]

Well, I want to be mentioned in this book.....by Rick Lee, of course.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Typically, the states with the strictest gun laws and most restrictions have the highest gun crime rates. So, in Wash. DC, NJ, NY, MD, IL, those kinds of states, I don't think you can do any kind of private party sale without going through an FFL (federal firearms license),.

Actually you can in Illinois. THe seller and buyer must just retain the transfer form for 10 years.

[on2wheels52]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Nothing sinister.

The issue comes up in a novel I am writing. I was looking for verisimilitude.

In that case I suggest your tourist acquires his firearm some other place than a gun shop. To do otherwise would be out of the ordinary.
Jim

[nostatic]

Your tourist should be a member of an online community and he ends up buying the gun from a member of that forum.

I want points...

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

In that case I suggest your tourist acquires his firearm some other place than a gun shop. To do otherwise would be out of the ordinary.
Jim

Well yes of course. He realizes that now.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Nothing sinister.

The issue comes up in a novel I am writing. I was looking for verisimilitude.

WTF? I just went out and bought an arsenal of weapons and a big box of
Tim Hortons in preparation for your arrival.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

WTF? I just went out and bought an arsenal of weapons and a big box of
Tim Hortons in preparation for your arrival.

WTF?

Who is this Tim Horton of whom you speak?