Harley's....

[ramonesfreak]

oh hell, thats 7 years ago and probably the last time i ever wore that much gear.

im a shorts and sneakers rider. always will be. i could give a crap about covering myself in leather when its 85 degrees out. i ride to enjoy myself. when its my time to die, good by blue sky

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by nostatic

You're kidding, right?

Riding position is the antithesis of being able to actually maneuver the bike in tight situations.

wrong!! i could weave that thing in and out of NYC traffic, avoiding pot holes and people better than if i was on a BMX bike. there is something about that sportster that i cant describe. you can flick it and the riding position is part of the reason why

[HardDrive]

La la la la la la........

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by srandallf

oh hell, thats 7 years ago and probably the last time i ever wore that much gear.

im a shorts and sneakers rider. always will be. i could give a crap about covering myself in leather when its 85 degrees out. i ride to enjoy myself. when its my time to die, good by blue sky

Kidding me? I ride in shorts and t-shirt just around the neighborhood. But how can you do serious hwy. riding without full gear on? I've never gone down at speed, but I surely would have when I rode through a swarm of bees a while back, had I not been totally covered in proper gear. It's 100 deg. here every day and it's not uncomfortable at all in full gear, as long as I'm not in stop and go traffic. You could easily survive a nasty fall without full gear on. But I'd fear the skin grafts and recovery more than dying.

[afterburn 549]

AHHHh A Sportster. If it were not for the K model their Bigger twin would not have made it
For the rider that likes excitement in the Harley Vogue a sporty it is
Like said, for those who want to wear a patch, look bad and whatever maybe they would be feeling ....pressure
Every Time I hear get a real H.D. I know the mouth is attached to canned thought, pry ed by no original wit with no history behind the Jack ass expelling his limited insight.
Kinda like someone walking up to your P car and saying "Nice VW"
I rode a 1976 Sporty across the US with out a problem and back and everywhere.
The H.D. Sporty is so much better now !
The newish twin cam is a good bike also...Just depends on what you want

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

And, yes I do think the newer Twin-Cam powered H-D touring bikes are better motorcycles than every one of their competitors you mention. For a lot of reasons. Sheer horsepower and gadgetry are not what make a quality motorcycle, or a quality riding experience. Many of the "conveniences" and wiz-bang accessories on those bikes simply dilute the riding experience. If I'm going to go that far down that path, I'll just go all the way and hop into my 911, thank you very much.

Jeff,

Have you ridden any of the the bikes mentioned, several of those mentioned are more sport touring then touring bikes. I think a better statement might be for the type of riding you like to do, the newer Twin-Cam powered H-D touring bikes are better motorcycles than every one of their competitors.

I rode a buddies street glide and had a passenger on the back. After taking the first set of corners and touching the floorboards, I knew it wasn't gonna work for the type of touring I like to do. They just don't do what I want my motorcycles to do. But I think some of them look pretty nice. He was riding my sport tourer with a passenger on the back as well. He has since sold the street glide and purchased a sport touring motorcycle. He really is more of a sport touring kind of guy.

I will say this though. If you know how to ride. You can make those big Harleys do some amazing things. They are alot more manuverable then some people think.

Oh, I like the orange and black bike.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Perhaps your vast HD experience has kept you out of the showroom for the past 5 years. The SG and SGCustom have mid controls (not forward like the Softails), comfortable seating and riding position (no "apes" here) and the best all around performance of any HD currently in production. Suspension is not lowered...except perhaps on the low sportster and other low versions of most of their bikes. Oh yes...no 21" front wheel either. I think you're confused.[/B].

I think you are just looking for an argument and either missing or ignoring what I'm saying. What part of this did you miss or ignore?

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The Super Glide was actually a great bike until they did that to all of the Dynas, with its standard foot position, reasonable handlebars, and resultant great ergonomics.

The "that" to which I was refering was the lowering of the rear end, and yes the Super Glide suffered that same fate. It also lost its second front disc somewhere along the way. And no, I never said it had the 21" front wheel - I did say to stay away from the bikes that do, if one is looking for a serious rider.

Yes, there is a Dyna Low Rider, and a Sportster Low. That is not what I'm refering to when I mention that the entire Dyna range had been lowered some years ago. The Dyna Low Rider has simply been lowered even beyond that, even further compromising its ride. When H-D lowered all of the standard ride height Dynas in the early Twin Cam years, the Super Glide did not escape that fate. Then, when it lost its second front disc, what could have been a viable (albeit heavy and "underpowered") sport tourer became just another Dyna with mid controls and normal handlebars. Cornering clearance and braking are gone, compared to earlier Super Blides.

And no, I have not been absent from the H-D showroom for the last five years. My local dealer - all of five miles away - has a rental program of which I take full advantage. I typically rent two or three (sometimes more) new Harleys that pique my interest every year. I spend a whole day on them, typically rolling up several hundred miles in my own little "road test". It's a great way to keep abreast of what the Motor Company is up to with their new models. In other words, the opinions - and they are still no more than opinions - that I offer here are my own, not those of my favorite magazines' road test staffs.

In the same veign, one of my riding buddies (who owns a brand new FJR, having sold a beautiful '63 Pan to buy it) and I like to rent bikes from a local (Fall City, WA) business called "Mountain to Sound Motorcycle Adventures". They have a darn good variety of bikes from which to choose. I've ridden BMW R and K models, a Gold Wing, and older FJR, and a number of other bikes rented from them. We have an all-day loop through the Cascade mountains that we like to ride. The only bike I found myself lusting after in that fleet is one of the BMW R models, by the way. A whole day in the saddle turned me off, for various reasons, to each and every bike bike they offer other than that one. So, again, these are only my opinions, but I do form my opinions by riding rather than reading.

Originally Posted by srandallf

whats wrong with the forward controls and 21 inch wheel?

gotta disagree. its just subjective opinion but to me, any other current harley without them is LAME looking and feeling. an old knucklehead bobber with standard controls looks right. feels right. but on a sportser or dyna or softail? not for me.

i get the subjective taste thing, but i dont get your "stay away" from them advice.

does the 21 inch wheel make things scarry sometimes? yes, a little. but not so bad that i would choose a harley without it. as for style, i would demand it. along with spoked wheels. i cant stand mag wheels on a harley. man is that wrong and ugly. however, thats just my taste. i wouldnt advise anyone to stay away from them because a particular brand of society likes this or that

As you mention, the 21" wheel makes them "scarry sometimes". I dramatically affects handling and braking. Yes, I agree they look cool. That is their sole purpose.

Legions of Harley riders obviously disagree with me, as they sure sell a lot of bikes fitted with that 21" wheel. I just won't personally make that sacrifice in handling and braking to look cool. I guess that's why Harley makes such a broad range of motorcycles - they all speak to us in different ways.

Back to the original topic, Dottore is asking for advice on H-D's. Looking at what he has owned and enjoyed in the past, my recommendations are meant to match what appear, from those bikes, to be his riding preferences. The only bikes H-D produces today (outside of the Buell line-up) that even come close to the old Trumpet or the BMW's in weight, handling, braking, and overall performance are the Sportsters. Narrowing the selection even more, I would suggest Sportsters with the standard foot position, twin front discs, and 1200 cc's. And no 21" front wheels (can't get the twin disc on one anyway).

So, those are my opinions. Gained through a lifetime of riding a variety of my own bikes, and even more that I've rented and ridden. Take them for what they are worth.

Edit (since I see Mike has joined us):

Yes, I should qualify what I say with for the kind of riding I do. Particularly with my wife on board. The performace level of the big Road King suits her comfort level. If I'm scraping floorboards with her on the back, I'm also getting slapped on the side of the helmet...

As far as riding the other bikes, I addressed that above. Yes, sport tourers are a lot of fun. I would like to have one to fill the gap between my tourer and my sport bikes. I have the extreme ends of the spectrum, but nothing in the middle. I can see myself on an R bike sometime in the future.

Oh, and as far as that Street Glide - it follows the H-D pattern of taking a great bike (the Electra Glide) and compromising it for "the look". The rear suspension has been substantially lowered on it as well. The standard Electra Glide, Road Glide, and Road King all have the full travel, full height rear suspensions. Not that an aggressive rider still won't scrape the floorboards (I do it daily when I'm on my Road King alone, especially after having spent time on that old Duc...), but they are far better.

Funny, I have a buddy that bought one of the Ultra Classic Electra Glides, the Police Edition. He did the 96 inch big bore, gear drive cams, HTCC heads, yadda yadda yadda. Then he bought a Gold Wing in addition to it. He bemoaned the fact that he dumped an additional $5k into the 'Glide, and still was grossly underpowered compared to the 'Wing. He went on an on for a couple of years about how "superior" the 'Wing was in every way.

He decided to consolidate down to one bike last year. He test rode everything. He wound up buying another Ultra Classic Electra Glide, the new 96 inch six speed model. The 'Wing is long gone. He says it just got boring - it wasn't enough like riding a motorcycle. They are great for those who want to ride and not "put up with" all of the "inconveniences" of riding - like wind, for instance. Anyway, he did the 'Wing thing, and came back to Harley when it was time to buy again.

[creaturecat]

Living in B.C. ?
Get a dualsport.
See some back country.
No offense to Harley owners.

[jyl]

The best-looking Harleys, for me, are the one that look like old police bikes. I don't know what the model(s) is (are). Windscreen, fat tank, wide tires, floorboards, nice wide saddle, bags, not-too-loud exhaust note, just the right amount of chrome. They look like a relaxed way to cover a lot of miles. There are some older Moto Guzzis that do the same thing for me. Just my own aesthetic preference, not even two cents.

[Dottore]

Lot's of good info here, thanks.

Jeff: what you say about the Sportster echos what my non-Harley friends say. Now if only they would build a Nightster with (a) the new engine and tranny; (b) double front discs; (c) a serious headlight and (d) a couple of cool integrated bags—I'd be there. The look is very, very cool—but it's somewhat incomplete as it is.

You're right also, that among the Harley crowd it clearly seems to be the "girly" bike. Even the charming female salesperson at the local Harley shop tried to steer me towards a larger bike with appeals to my vanity and machismo.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Yowza.

Driving home from a birthday party with kids in the back. This 20 something gal who was screaming hot comes rolling by on her Softtail. She was wearing a wife beater t-shirt, boxer shorts and cowboy boots. It was quite a lovely scene.

WHY NO PICTURES!!?!?!??!?!

Originally Posted by srandallf

oh hell, thats 7 years ago and probably the last time i ever wore that much gear.

im a shorts and sneakers rider. always will be. i could give a crap about covering myself in leather when its 85 degrees out. i ride to enjoy myself. when its my time to die, good by blue sky

Love the pink floyd quote.

[varmint]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

WHY NO PICTURES!!?!?!??!?!

get pictures quick. you won't want them after her first crash.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

Living in B.C. ?
Get a dualsport.
See some back country.
No offense to Harley owners.

+1 love to have a dualsport up there. many fine choices available

[javadog]

I spent the weekend driving some twisty roads in Arkansas (in a car...) Lucky for me there was the mother of all poker runs scheduled at the same time, which meant I spent a huge amount of time stuck behind one Harley or another and I paid a lot of attention to what they did in the corners. The rear suspensions of most of them didn't like to hit any serious bumps while leaned over. It was actually pretty interesting to watch. Some responded so badly, I wouldn't have wanted to be on them. Based upon what I saw, I'd want to pick something that had a fair amount of travel in the rear end, even then, I might upgrade the rear shocks...

In other news, I once rode a Sportster and found that it had the worst handling and brakes of any bike I've ever ridden. Head shake, weaves, standing up on the brakes, it had so many bad habits I wouldn't ride one across town. No clue what the rest of them are like.

JR

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by javadog

I spent the weekend driving some twisty roads in Arkansas (in a car...) Lucky for me there was the mother of all poker runs scheduled at the same time, which meant I spent a huge amount of time stuck behind one Harley or another and I paid a lot of attention to what they did in the corners. The rear suspensions of most of them didn't like to hit any serious bumps while leaned over. It was actually pretty interesting to watch. Some responded so badly, I wouldn't have wanted to be on them. Based upon what I saw, I'd want to pick something that had a fair amount of travel in the rear end, even then, I might upgrade the rear shocks...

In other news, I once rode a Sportster and found that it had the worst handling and brakes of any bike I've ever ridden. Head shake, weaves, standing up on the brakes, it had so many bad habits I wouldn't ride one across town. No clue what the rest of them are like.

JR

What year was the Sportster?

Seems a lot of Harley's reputation with our generation has been earned through their older bikes. One short ride, on one bike, seems to earn one the status of earstwhile Harley guru. Or better yet, through a friend of a friend who rode one once, back in '72 or so. Most people who profess to "know" something about Harleys are only repeating old shop-worn dogma that hasn't been true any time during their own lifetimes.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I approve of this message

BWANA DICK

Frank zappa (guitar, dialog)
Mark volman (lead vocals, dialog)
Howard kaylan (lead vocals, dialog)
Ian underwood (woodwinds, keyboards, vocals)
Aynsley dunbar (drums)
Jim pons (bass, vocals, dialog)
Bob harris (keyboards, vocals)
Don preston (mini-moog)

I've got the thing you need
I am endowed beyound your wildest
Clearasil-spattered fantasies, oh oh oh..

Girls from all over the world
Love to write my name on the toilet walls
At the whisky a go go
For I am bwana dik
I am bwana dik
Me bwana dik
Me bwana dik

My dick is a monster
Give me your heart
My dick is a harley
You kick it to start

(chorus line)
When bwana dik speaks
The heavens will part

My dick is a dagger
I'll force it to fit
My dick is a reamer, baby
To scream up your slit

Steam it!
Ream it!
Cream it!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What year was the Sportster?

Seems a lot of Harley's reputation with our generation has been earned through their older bikes. One short ride, on one bike, seems to earn one the status of earstwhile Harley guru. Or better yet, through a friend of a friend who rode one once, back in '72 or so. Most people who profess to "know" something about Harleys are only repeating old shop-worn dogma that hasn't been true any time during their own lifetimes.

If you got the impression that I was trying to pass myself off as a Harley expert, you should perhaps take what I say more literally. I wasn't trying to knock the whole Harley line, it was just one data point.

I have no idea what year it was, although when I rode it, it was new. I'm guessing it was 7 or 8 years ago. I suppose my ride, and thus my viewpoint, was limited, in that it handled so poorly that I cut the ride short.

If you read between the lines () prehaps I'm suggesting quietly to Signor Dottore to actually go ride a couple of these things and see if that helped further his quest. And, prehaps, that he should pick one that is more function than form, as I saw plenty of bikes this weekend that suffered from form over function and their riders were having to be pretty conservative in the corners, even for a cruiser...

JR

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by javadog

If you got the impression that I was trying to pass myself off as a Harley expert, you should perhaps take what I say more literally. I wasn't trying to knock the whole Harley line, it was just one data point.

I have no idea what year it was, although when I rode it, it was new. I'm guessing it was 7 or 8 years ago. I suppose my ride, and thus my viewpoint, was limited, in that it handled so poorly that I cut the ride short.

If you read between the lines () prehaps I'm suggesting quietly to Signor Dottore to actually go ride a couple of these things and see if that helped further his quest. And, prehaps, that he should pick one that is more function than form, as I saw plenty of bikes this weekend that suffered from form over function and their riders were having to be pretty conservative in the corners, even for a cruiser...

JR

My appologies; I miss-understood and read too much into your post.

Great advice for our friend Dottore, JR - go ride 'em. One will either grab his fancy or not.

The Sportsters, by the way, underwent a major face-lift several years ago. The motors are now rubber isolation mounted in a much improved frame. Far better bikes than the one you rode.

Your observations on Harley form vs. function are spot-on. The more "custom" (off the showroom floor?.. nevermind...) they are, the worse they ride. When H-D gets serious about it, though, they now build a damn fine bike. Their customers, alas, dictate the market, just like anything else. Many are no longer serious motorcyclists, which has become quite telling in the current product line that caters to them. One can still find a good bike among the rabble, however.

[ramonesfreak]

my sportster suffered from terrifying at times back wheel hop on the highway on very small bumps...not fun

no slipper clutch..obviously. the damn rear wheel would lock up if engine speed not matched perfectly when down shifting...can be very dangerous

but, it handled incredibly well in the curves as far as pointing it in a direction, and it going where i wanted it to go

[VINMAN]

Heres my "girls bike".....