Home Security (alarms), thoughts

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by WilsonTC

Consistent 90 sec. response time by the po-po?

Here's my poll:

A) You live next door to the police station, -or-
B) You live in a tiny town, -or-
C) You live next door to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts

I called the police (about 5 yrs. ago) about a burglary and waited about 4 hrs. for them to show up.

I'm sure my demographics play into this, I live in Denver, and about 5 miles from the police station. The down shot here is I can pretty much open a window and hear sirens at any hour of the day. So I think I fall into "A" which should be noted.

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by WilsonTC

Not bullsheet. Simply my opinion. "High end security systems" is marketing bullsheet. I've seen many installed where the alarm company leaves the outside phone line dangling for anyone to cut (and no cellular back-up installed). Pffft.

Well, they been installed by sh$t cowboys then. For the average person an alarm system that covers all entry points that would/could be used by a burglar looking to make a silent entry are the best choice. At least you would be waken by the sirens and so would your neighbors.
Like most people I meet, everyone's an expert on alarms when in fact most people know schit.
And who gives a rat's ass about monitoring. I would just want to be woken up so at least I have a fighting chance.

[pwd72s]

Yes, our home is alarmed...cut the phone lines? That triggers the alarm. Found that out the hard way when fence installers dug a hole cutting the line. The system senses the voltage drop if lines are cut, or even if lines are bypassed. Not their fault...the phone comany "finder" service marked the location wrong. I also have motion detectors, etc. Don't wish to go into details beyond that.

Best alarm story I heard was G Gordon Liddy describing his alarm system to a radio show caller. "My alarm is silent, will wake me...then a panel tells me where the intruder is. If he's moving through the house, I will set up an ambush & kill him. If he remains in one room, I will go to where he is and kill him."

Caller asked if he was serious. Liddy explained he was. This because if he merely wounded the guy, the guy's story would be that he was looking for mother Teresa and just happened to wander into the wrong place. But, if he killed the intruder, there would only be one story for the cops and that would be his story.

You know, I believed him.

[WilsonTC]

Originally Posted by dewolf

Well, they been installed by sh$t cowboys then.
Like most people I meet, everyone's an expert on alarms when in fact most people know schit.
And who gives a rat's ass about monitoring. I would just want to be woken up so at least I have a fighting chance.

True, true...most alarm guys I deal with (almost daily) are high-school drop-outs or ex-cons who couldn't get real jobs (certainly won't work for me). When I show them a "66" punch-down tool (which would allow them to make proper connections at the MDF/NID), they look at me like I'm from Mars.

Monitoring is your bread/butter. Otherwise, how the heck can you make any skanool installing systems for $99.00? LOL.

[WilsonTC]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Yes, our home is alarmed...cut the phone lines? That triggers the alarm.

And there goes your link with the outside world. No calls to 9-1-1. No police response. Call 9-1-1 from your cellphone? Takes time and doesn't deliver your home address.

The "high end security" companies around here almost always fail to secure the outside phone lines. The line doesn't have to be cut, just shorted (or dialed) to make busy. Without the RJ31x installed properly, there will be no alarm or outbound call.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Lots of off-the-shelf alarms have a GSM add-on that you can use just in case someone cuts a phone line. That way your call still goes out (either to a monitoring company or a pre-selected other number, depending on the system). I have it on mine.

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by WilsonTC

True, true...most alarm guys I deal with (almost daily) are high-school drop-outs or ex-cons who couldn't get real jobs (certainly won't work for me). When I show them a "66" punch-down tool (which would allow them to make proper connections at the MDF/NID), they look at me like I'm from Mars.

Monitoring is your bread/butter. Otherwise, how the heck can you make any skanool installing systems for $99.00? LOL.

$99.00, fk that schit. My jobs start somewhere around $2.5k upwards. And then my clients can elect if they want monitoring or not. If they do, they can cancel anytime, no contracts. I will only sell/install full perimeter systems with security light integration etc. I'm not interested in 2 detector BS jobs. Not worth my time.
I currently monitor around 3000 alarms.
We are changing our monitoring to IP shortly. 16 second pulses. No pulse, alarm response required.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by WilsonTC

And there goes your link with the outside world. No calls to 9-1-1. No police response. Call 9-1-1 from your cellphone? Takes time and doesn't deliver your home address.

The "high end security" companies around here almost always fail to secure the outside phone lines. The line doesn't have to be cut, just shorted (or dialed) to make busy. Without the RJ31x installed properly, there will be no alarm or outbound call.

...the cops showed because the alarm monitoring called them...I don't know the tech details. Actually, the hole dug by the fence company knocked out not just my line, but several homes around me. I'll admit, if it had been a real breaking & entering, the sheriff's dept wouldn't have been much help...2o minutes or so response time. Deputy told me they prefer silent alarms...gives them a better chance of catching the perps. So maybe they don't respond as fast to loud alarms?

[WilsonTC]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Lots of off-the-shelf alarms have a GSM add-on that you can use just in case someone cuts a phone line. That way your call still goes out (either to a monitoring company or a pre-selected other number, depending on the system). I have it on mine.

Most people don't want to spend the extra $35/mo. for that feature and the alarm companies don't push it.

[WilsonTC]

Originally Posted by dewolf

$99.00, fk that schit.
We are changing our monitoring to IP shortly. 16 second pulses. No pulse, alarm response required.

Wow. IP monitoring. So whenever the customer's DSL/broadband signal drops, you'll get a "trip"? Err...wait. DSL/broadband signals rarely, if ever, drop. Nevermind.

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by WilsonTC

Wow. IP monitoring. So everytime the customer's DSL/broadband signal drops, you'll get a "trip"? Err...wait. DSL/broadband signals rarely, if ever, drop. Nevermind.

ADT...what sh$t...the biggest bunch of rip off cowboys in the world. They cut their own lunch here in Oz by being pricks with their monitoring. And using crap equipment and schit installers.
As for the IP monitoring, generally the only problem we have encountered with the few we have changed at the moment (trials) was telephone exchange issues. These will be non issues once we have certain protocols installed in our software. IP monitoring and security/camera integration with IP protocols is definitely the future in security.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by WilsonTC

Alarm system = false sense of security

Loaded gun = absolute security

Bzzzt, wrong. If you want "absolute security", you'll need more than 1 layer. I'd think that a more comprehensive approach would be a dog or two, an alarm, and a loaded gun. Any one of those things by itself is not going to be absolute security.

This is a quote from the Home Defense Poll thread

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

I was staying over at my girlfiends first floor apartment about 15 years ago. We had been out, had a great dinner and a bunch of drinks and went home for some nookie. . I awoke to the sound of breaking glass. the next think I know, I was punched in the face, and maced before my head ever left the pillow. There were two huge black dudes, and they pretty much beat the sheet out of both of us. She was screaming for her life, and I think she took the grunt of the beating just because they were trying to shut her up. I was curled up in the fetal position , taking some nice kicks to the ribs, and thinking that I may not get out of there alive. Something snapped in me, and I dont really know what happened, but somehow, I knoced the big son of a ***** in the face, and managed to squirell my way around the smaller of the two, and got out of the house. I was buck naked, but I grabbed my jeans and ran out to my car, and thank god, my keys were in the pocket still.
They had their ****ty ford granada blocking my 85 corvette. I remember fumbling around trying to get my keys in the ignition, but once the car fired, I knew I was safe. Dude comes running at me from the house, and their car is blocking me, so I dumped the clutch, and , I swear , I must have pushed that ford 50 yards before I left of the gas. Remember, I was maced. Somehow I drove to the local police station, and got help. I had also forgot to latch the roof on the vette, so after smashing the hell out of the front of my car trying to get of the driveway, and am now flying down the road, with mace in my eyes, and I hear swoosh, the roof flies off the car, and smashes into a thousand pieces.
This was one of the scariest things that has ever happened to me. I thought they were going to kill her, they beat her up pretty badly, broke her nose etc. I got roughed up pretty well to, had bruised ribs etc, but watching her take that beating, and not being able to do a damn thing about it hurt worse than any of the shots that I was taking.
The perps were still there ramsacking the place when I got back with the cops, and both were arrested. Police said that one of them was a murder suspect in a local donut shop robbery, and We both were lucky to be alive. God must have been looking out for me that night, cause these were two big guys , that I could have in no way overpowered one on one, let alone two.
That night was an eye opener for me, and I can gurantee it will never happen like that again.
I dont carry , but if you come into my home, you better be ready.
Sorry for the long story, but dont ever take your safetey for granted, this was in the city, but not in a bad area.

In that case an alarm and/or dog may (or may not) have helped. From the sound of it, a gun may or may not have helped. To have Absolute Security, you probably need a couple of guys with guns to hang out with you 24x7 and stay awake all night. That sounds a bit extreme though for most of us.


Ian McArthur has a point, this thread is supposed to be about ALARMS. I appreciate hearing the opinion about Alarms vs Guns, but I don't want it to turn into a gun thread. I've got one, now I'm curious about alarms.

Thanks

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by masraum

Ian McArthur has a point, this thread is supposed to be about ALARMS. I appreciate hearing the opinion about Alarms vs Guns, but I don't want it to turn into a gun thread. I've got one, now I'm curious about alarms.

Thanks

Go for the smaller companies or the one man band. You will generally be treated better and they will be able to offer you different types of equipment specific to your needs.
Most of all, make sure your system has room for integration of lighting/cameras/PC compatibility etc. It will be money well spent in the long term.

[pwd72s]

Evren's mother lives with 3 "secuity personnel"...I pity the fool who may try to harm her.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/anatolianshepherd.htm (edit) tried to lift pics from this site but couldn't...a very impressively sized guard dog.

For centuries the ancestors of the Anatolian Shepherd were used as a combat dog in war and for hunting. It was particularly valued for the victorious battles it could fight with wolves. As a sheepdog, it was bothered by neither fatigue nor bad weather. Today it is still used as a sheep dog as well as a guard dog.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by dewolf

Go for the smaller companies or the one man band. You will generally be treated better and they will be able to offer you different types of equipment specific to your needs.
Most of all, make sure your system has room for integration of lighting/cameras/PC compatibility etc. It will be money well spent in the long term.

Thanks. My mom has had good luck with hers. I think it's a smallish company, at least, compared to Time Warner or ADT or Brinks.

I think a couple of these around the house might help too.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by dewolf

Go for the smaller companies or the one man band. You will generally be treated better and they will be able to offer you different types of equipment specific to your needs.
Most of all, make sure your system has room for integration of lighting/cameras/PC compatibility etc. It will be money well spent in the long term.

Yep...went with a local company...I figure the extra cost was worth it. I've known Russ, the owner, for decades...

[Joeaksa]

[WilsonTC]

Originally Posted by masraum

Bzzzt, wrong.

Bzzzt. Not wrong...when taken in context.

My comments have been directed at the currently running Brinks TV ads (which has a lot of people considering their alarm systems). All have the same theme...Bad guy smashes in the front door (none too quietly), hears the alarm and instantly runs away with his tail tucked between legs while the security company rolls into action (and puzzwipe hubby cowers in bedroom).

Bzzzt. Gun. Final answer.

[Rick Lee]

Why would you ever put signs in your yard, advertising what kind of alarm system you have? If I were to do this, I'd be sure to put signs in my yard from a company whose system I did not have. Why tip others off on which kind of system they need to know how to defeat?

I rode past the house today where we have an offer pending to buy it. I saw a few newspapers in the driveway, so I stopped to inspect further. There was a foreclosure notice on the front door and a few ADT signs in the yard. Does anyone think those signs are gonna deter someone whose interest was piqued by the foreclosure notice? Now I'm kinda worried that the house is not being maintained since we first saw it.

BTW, those commercials are just the most insulting thing to one's intelligence I've ever seen. Like anyone who's dumb enough to kick in a door when they know someone is home is gonna be scared off by the siren and then the homeowner is gonna run upstairs to grab the call from the award-winning monitoring center. Has this ever once happened in real life?

I think this is gonna be in my front yard when I buy this house.

[stealthn]

Steve,

If the option is to have one or not get one; I think if a perp is going to choose between a house that has an alarm and one that doesn't he is going to choose the one that doesn't.

As a past business I was ventruing into home automation and ours is ties into the whole house system. It has motion, door alarms with beeps, glass break and window sensors. If triggered all house lights go on, and exterior lights flash.

As mentioned it is also handy to have a one button call, and it's tied into the fire system.

As a bonus, when the kids get to be teenagers we will know when they are getting home or trying to sneek out