Your Thoughts On A Kitchen Design?

[LWJ]

More thoughts:

I get the computer nook idea. We have that and it is great. On second thought, my peeves are very similar. Our kitchen prior to remodel was way too close for comfort. Annoyed the hell out of me. I can hear similar tones in you. I really like the space you have given yourself for clearance- 42 and 66 inches is great. We have simlar and it is much more comfortable. I don't have any answer about the wok BTU needs but I get it. We went to a Wolf 6 burner gas range. I typically have a tea pot on one burner and have only used 4 in cooking. It is great for having extra real estate to work with. Incidentally, if you do use a 6 burner plus a wok range, you may have to increase capacity of your gas line, as they need to be sized for max possible utilization.

Other thoughts. We have a Vent-a-hood range hood. The guy at BASCO said they were good and I agree. Our last Broan (I think) was as loud as a jet. It did move the air well however.

Work spaces are a big deal. We like to make pizza on Friday dinner and we needed a space to roll the dough. Something that I thought would be cool but the wife shot down was having part of the counter made of wooded cutting board material. I still think it is a good idea as you don't have to fumble with grabbing a cutting board while you are working. We currrently have granite. It is attractive and fairly functional.

Summary: I get what you are trying to do in the kitchen. It makes perfect sense. I think plan #1 addresses most of your needs with the exception of a wok range. The only consideration that I see is will a future buyer be as function driven as you in the kitchen?

I have to say that it is a heck of a lot more fun being able to shoot ideas to someone else who is grinding on a kitchen remodel than being the one who is doing it. I remember having the same sort of processing going on during our design. I think we took well over a year to completely dial it all in.

Larry

PS - Something I really like is our "peanut" corner storage device. Our cabinet folks are old-school german folks who found this cool german device that solves the horrible lazy susan problem. Highly recommended.

[jyl]

"Peanut" is the semi-circular shelf that rotates out of the blind corner base cabinet, right? I like that idea better than the other alternatives I've seen (lazy susan w/ bifold doors, drawers set at 45 degrees, linkage that slides back shelf forward when you open door).

[MikeSid]

Originally Posted by jyl

"Peanut" is the semi-circular shelf that rotates out of the blind corner base cabinet, right? I like that idea better than the other alternatives I've seen (lazy susan w/ bifold doors, drawers set at 45 degrees, linkage that slides back shelf forward when you open door).

It sounds like you're talking about a Rev-a-Shelf halfmoon. The peanut is a little different and in my opinion better. I have the Rev-a-shelf half moon, but it is only because of the configuration of my corner blind. I would have done a peanut or even better the 5PSP wire shelf but I have a large built-in range that sits 6 inches proud of the adjacent cabinet faces, so I didn't have clearance for some of the fancier corner blind units.

Rev-a-shelf is good quality stuff. But you'll probably want to lay hands on it before you make a decision.

Rev-A-Shelf - 5PSP Series

[look 171]

no I will try to get you some info or part number on the corner unit. Its a german or swiss made unit. Its really tricked. Every one of our clients have been wow by it. The company is Hafele. they wouldn't sell to you so have your cabinet man order it and go through the insatll or build with him on that. that cabinet need to be built to hold up the entire flip-out/ roll-roll out or whatever you call it. I will look it up tonight when I get back. While I am here ******* off, I am about to shoot one of my painting contractor's man right now. he just spit inside, although it landed on their drop cloth, the home with the client and the designer on the other side of the dining room.

Jeff

[MikeSid]

The Hafele unit is on YouTube if you want to see it in action.

[jyl]

Cool, I will do some more layout sketches, and now have to think more about "style". Need to do some reading up on period architecture and decor. Will post some more pics later.

I really appreciate the feedback so far (and, hopefully, later in this thread too). Interesting project for me. I have never previously given any thought to kitchen design. My previous kitchens have all been so-so (or worse) and I was never inclined to spend any money on them. But I like this house and hoping to stay a while. Plus, not being quite as young as I was, I am starting to learn words like "ergonomics". (And similar charming concepts like "bifocals" and "gout")

[LWJ]

As I am home with a touch of something, I went and checked on who makes the peanut. It is a "Kessebohmer." Very German I believe. Look171 is right. It gets rave reviews. Hafele may make the original for all I know. I did notice it is rated for 20 KG per shelf. That is a lot of stuff!
Larry

Edit. I checked Youtube and it turns out to be a "LeMans by Kessebohmer." Looks nothing like a car race btw. Here is a link below. Hope it works.

YouTube - Le Mans by KesseBohmer

Ok. I checked on the Hafele. It turns out my folks have one. It is really cool. I think the Hafele is "cooler" than the Kessebohmer but the Kessebohmer is more functional. Both one heck of a bunch better than lazy susans.

[jyl]

That "peanut" is very cool. And the video is funny - she looks like she's enjoying foreplay or something. I never knew storage could be so stimulating.

[look 171]

Wow, the power of the net. You guys are scarey. HOw the hell do you find a corner roll out unit in you tube??? Never in my wildest dreams. I don't do much research on the net on stuff like that. I use my salesmen knowledge, trade shows (I attend them all). to learn the latest and the greatest. Many of that crap are junks and I would put it in worst neighbor's house.

for the most part, Hafele make some of the very best hardware along with Blum. Not all Hafele stuff are good, you just have to know which of their products to buy. they too, have some of there made in China with their name stamp on it. Some of their Swiss made hardware is 5 times more then anyone else's but by far the best ans I would use anything else.

[look 171]

Now that you've seen Hafele and I am screwing around waiting for the inspector, how about looking at Rev-A-Shelf 5207. This is a good quality heavy duty blind corner unit.

[jyl]

Being real anal here - I calculate that the latest "kitchen 6" design has 237 cubic feet of fully usable cabinet space and 40 cu ft of less usable space (blind corner cabinet, unusually shallow cabinet, cabinet above vent hood).

1/3 of the fully usable space is above waist-height, and 2/3 is below waist-height. Might come in handy if I'm ever confined to a wheelchair (or become very short).

That is net of all appliances incl vent ducts and a 4" cabinet base/toekick, but gross of pesky stuff like shelves, case walls.

237 is a box 5 feet by 5 feet by 9.5 feet. Seems possibly adequate.

[jyl]

That Rev A Shelf is $600. Hmm.

[Dueller]

One thing we have enjoyed more than we originally thought on our recent purchase were 3 deep drawers located under the wall oven in lieu of traditional cabinets. Amazing how much they hold in pots/pots and very accessible. We're planning a kitchen makeover ourselves in the not so distant future and plan to remove a set of l;ower cabinets and adding more deep drawers. No more standing on your head searching for something in the back of the cabinet..

[jyl]

Yes, drawers seem so much more practical than shelves, for the base cabinets. The back part of some of our lower shelves have literally not been seen in 3 years. Totally pointless space.

[look 171]

You can't go too much deeper then your normal 24" cabinets unless you have lots of space like in an island somewhere in the middle of the kitchen. Too deep of a cabinet will make you really reach for things like plugs or the far end of the counter. Unless you are 6'8" with monkey arms. tall drawer are great for pots. I try to build half to 3/4 drawer boxes with lots of room between drawers for tall pot and pans. the reason for that is that when you go to take out a pot, you wouldn't bang it against the drawer sides. Plus you could pull out the pot side ways a little and not have to go straight up. Of course, full ext slides. Tall drawer sides always get in the way. Have a dedicated wide drawer about 7-8" high for your wok if you have the space. You can get it in and out without any interference with stacking and unstacking million of pots and what not on top of the wok. I did that for my mother, she loves that drawer uses it almost daily.

[jyl]

What do you think about hanging pot storage? What do clients and designers think about it? Is the look of hanging pots "passe" or becoming passe, do people want all enclosed pot storage? I'm not au courant with the taste trends.

About 1/2 of my 30-odd pots are French copper, my wife wants them on display, I don't care but want to be able to reach my tools fast. For similar reason I want knives, spatulas, ladels, etc, out in the open.

Actually, here is a broader question - what are the best magazines or online sources to find out what the trends are in kitchen design? Not just to get ideas and learn about things like that Rev-A-Shelf that I'd never heard of, but also to find out what people will want and not want in the coming years?

Like, if stainless steel is becoming the new avocado green, or granite the new formica, it'd be nice to get wind of that . . .

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

That Rev A Shelf is $600. Hmm.

You get what you pay for. It is a robust unit and it works withot sagging and binding with weight like some of them on the market. Remember it has to swing way out and still hold the weight and stay true. I tell people, you don't need it, you can craw in there and get your stuff that never see the light of day. Look, skip and save on other parts of the kitchen, but do not save on that unit if you want a corner roll out. Hafele is a good unit but the R-A-S is by far, in my opinion the best. You will pay for it later in a few years if you get a cheap one. I only use their pull up Mixer hardware pre wired inside the cabinet along with a small hidden drawer to gain a little more storage unleass it a large kitchen where storage is not a concern.

You sonund like you want a pro range or cook top which needs a high volume hood. do you have source for ding and strached units up there in SF or was it OR? I know a place that sell only strached and dented units (usually in the back of side of the unit) that ship to SF all the time. Usually not noticable. I'll give you their contact # if you like. they have stuff like DEC and Viking and various high end items. No GE or whirlpoor and what not. They usually do not have a matching set, if that's what you want, then you have to buy retail.

Jeff

[jyl]

I'm in Oregon, if you wanted to PM the info, I'd certainly be thankful. I already am (thankful).

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

What do you think about hanging pot storage? What do clients and designers think about it? Is the look of hanging pots "passe" or becoming passe, do people want all enclosed pot storage? I'm not au courant with the taste trends.

About 1/2 of my 30-odd pots are French copper, my wife wants them on display, I don't care but want to be able to reach my tools fast. For similar reason I want knives, spatulas, ladels, etc, out in the open.

That's the best if you need ease of reach. It also free up cabinet space. Depending on the style of your home or kitchen, I personally dislike hanging pots and pans. Most of our remodels are really mordern homes, kitchen and baths and most of the designers want nothing but sleek lines, so no hanging pots. Some we have done over the years look really nice with them hanging. that's really a personal taste and your design.

you sound like someone who really take cooking serious. May I suggest that you try and fit a butcher block top somewhere inplace of traditional countertop. Don't be afraid to mix it up. If done correctly, it can be a thing of beauty. Your cabinet shop can build it in so that its easily replacable with a few screws. I'll show you how when you get there. Have them cut a blood groove on the surface. If its near the sink, have it drain into it. you don't sound like the type, but most people are afraid to use or cut on the butcher block top because they are afraid to ding it up. Replace it after 10-20 years. Plan a pot filler and s small sink near the stove. you should be able to do it.

[Dueller]

Trendy? Who knows? I think stainless will be around for a while. Think there may be a trend to "hide" fridges with fascias matching cabinets since a huge stainless fridge sometimes sticks out especially in smaller kitchens. For serious cooks a pot filler faucet over the stove seems to be in a lot of upscale kitchens. And an extra prep sink with a disposal seems to be popping up a lot.

I think a fad that will eventually wain are the small 1" tiles being used for backsplashes. Highly varigated (correct term?) marble/granite may be tiresom after a while...I would lean toward a more muted countertop pattern as being more timeless. Funny thing about cabinets is its almost regional with desires for painted cabinets in some areas whereas others are opting for almost furniture quality wood stained cabinets. I think kitchen design needs to reflect the style of the house and other decor...A classic country french kitchen looks out of place in a contemporary/modern style home...likewise a sleek modern stainless/laminate cabinets/monochromatic kitchen looks disconsonant in an antebellum home. Both can look good and be functional but in the period correct vein of the rest of the house. All kitchens regardless of style seem to be going for uncluttered counters.

We haven't begun our remodel yet, but I thought the first thing I would do is yank a trash compacter in the kitchen and replace with a frestanding ice maker. Seller told me try it as it was his favorite appliance. We did and though it is somewhat of an anachronism we've thoroughly enjoyed having it. We only put paper, etc in it...no waste that will rot or spoil.

Design for how you are going to use it. My only peeve is not using "honest" materials; i.e., no formica that looks like granite or "fake" stainless. They make some great looking laminates but trying to make it look like something it isn't really bothers me for some reason. WTF do I know?