Relationship and Emotional Dysfunction
 

I just placed some counseling advice in another thread and I have no business doing so. I am an idiot. This post is going to be about relationships and my dysfunction, so if you're not into that I suggest the "back" button. I'm just expressing myself I guess. Nobody really needs to read this.

Like many men, I am not self-aware. I have no better idea how I feel than someone looking at me. Seriously. Several times in recent years I have noticed my cheek is wet...then noticed my eye was leaking and, wondering about the cause of that, discovered I had a SPLITTING headache. That is how self-aware I am.

I have virtually no memory of my childhood. I think something happened, or didn't happen, at that time that continues to strangle me. I put on a great facade. Everyone thinks I am charming, intelligent (well, except the folks on PARF), handsome, effective, blah blah. I can barely concentrate through my ongoing depression enough to make it to meetings on time.

I fell madly in something (love, infatuation, whatever....) in my early twenties and made a decision that this was the One. We married and had two beautiful children. My relationship with this woman was like oil and water. Except for the beautiful children, we should never have met, let alone got married. The power struggle went on another 23 years and ended in divorce.

I am struggling to offer a short, to-the-point story here rather than a novel.

I had entered into that relationship with my heart, against all logic and advice. When it ended, I vowed to heal (I was verbally and emotionally abused....seriously) and I also vowed to never make another romantic decision with my heart. If I were going to enter into another relationship, it would be a rational decision. That vow has come back to haunt me now.

Couple of years ago I meet a woman. I did not fall in love and was not infatuated. But she was infatuated with me. We continued to see each other. I sort of "went along" with this while she increasingly regarded the relationship as committed, exclusive, etc. This has been going on nearly three years now. We do not live together. We live nearly an hour apart. But...we see each other a couple times per week.

That's all over now. Long story. Mostly, it is over because I didn't want it to go on. Why didn't I want it to go on? Because I never had infatuation feelings. My vow was apparently somewhat meaningless. If I could make a romantic decision with my head, I would commit to be with this woman. She is a leggy, slender redhead. Nice face.....52 years old and no lines whatsoever. Attractive, though she almost never wear makeup. Hard-working. Positive attitude. Patience of a saint. Absolutely 100% trustworthy. Frugal. Creative. Likes blues music. Interests and values similar to mine. Resourceful. She has all the greatest qualities a mate could have....in spades. Just a truly remarkable, wonderful woman. And now, I have to live with the knowledge that I've wasted her time and crushed her feelings. I am a ****head.

And why do I lack the ability to commit to that relationship? Because I'm imagining there is something else. I am imagining that my heart will tell me when commitment is the right thing to do. Infatuation, or whatever......

In the back of my mind I am wondering if perhaps I could get my sch!t together, find the hurt little boy I left behind, learn to like myself, develop the capacity to love others, and then reconnect with this woman when I've gained some sense and some capacity for that. Trouble is......she'll be gone by that time.

On the one hand, I am worried this is one of the greatest mistakes of my life (and quite frankly, that's saying something). On the other hand, perhaps (and this seems true) I simply do not have the capacity, the ability, the emotional centeredness, to make a commitment.

I kinda hope nobody reads this. I'm not sure there is an answer and just needed to "journal." If somebody reads this and would like to scold me, bring it on and lay it thick. I deserve it.

Bro, life never really makes sense or gets easy. These decisions never become anything other than labored and confusing. All you can do is stumble your way through life on a daily basis the best you can, and take faith in the fact that you won't have to suffer for very long, because death comes for all of us eventually. Don't worry about is this the right thing, is this the wrong thing, blah, blah, blah. Cause you could make every decision the right one, and be responsible in every way, and you'll still end up just as dead as what others perceive to be a stupid, fk up, me first guy who lives for today and ignores tomorrow.

I think what i'm saying is, don't sweat the small stuff. Have fun. As much as you can...because none of us will be here for very long.

PS: To me an intimate relationship with a woman you see 2-3 times a week is absolutely ideal.

PSS: I do NOT have it "all figured out," however, i have learned that by simply not worrying and fretting over everything or tying to over-analyze things that my life is a hell of a lot more pleasant.

Supe, what you had was a best friend. Too bad the love wasn't there.

I kinda did it backwards from you. I married the "smart choice" using my head, rather than my heart. It lasted 8 years and, you guessed it, divorce.

So don't feel bad, man. All is fair in love and war, and you made the right non-commitment on the second gal. Some guys in your situation would have married her and ended up getting divorce #2 down the road.

Soup, you're not alone. Some high-level background on my 'quest for self-awareness':

Last year, right around this time, some medical issues came to a head. I'm like any other guy, don't go to the doctor unless I feel I am going to die - or worse, not be able to perform sexually. While I wasn't fearing death, there was a persistent condition that wouldn't go away. Test after test - six months of scans, probes, and biopsies, until finally had to deal with general anasthesia for the first time in my 35 years. Couldn't have been better news - a gigantic, benign salivary cyst that, due to the weird positioning in my neck- was near-impossible to diagnose. No malignancy, plus a sexy new scar to show off. Disco. Surgical scar? No no, that's a memory of a knife fight in Juarez, where I was defending my woman's honor against 20 carteleros.

Putting it all together afterward, I realized that I had been scared scheissless about the whole affair. Never could express it or even feel it - I just noticed, in hindsight, some really weird-ass behaviors and tendencies that manifested during the six months of testing.

Well fast forward to November, I've got a completely new, and completely different "something" in my throat again. MRI tomorrow morning. Fk'ing great.

Once again - I'm not processing the emotions. They're there somewhere, though - the same weird behavior I finally recognized from last year, is rearing it's head again, and in spades. We are some seriously screwed up, dysfunctional creatures.

What am I trying to say? Beats me. Uh...I mean, yes, you are a ****head. But I think you're getting on top of things by at least realizing that fact. That means you can work past it/through it.

This woman, wonderful as she is, isn't the 'one'. You know that, and sad as it is, you can't change it. Is there another woman out there that will give you that emotional response. Maybe not. But if there is, I'm willing to bet you'll be able to recognize it and process it.

The depression is priority #1, relationships are #2. It would be a real misfortune if she were the one but you can't see it.

hang in there sup, many lights came on in my head with what you wrote. being alone plays tricks on my mind, my mind says i am happier alone, my heart not so much.

t

That's exactly right. And true love requires extreme vulnerability. Jim's not ready for that... Understandably.

Right woman, wrong time.

There's nothing wrong with you, Jim. Nothing at all.

You and I must absolutely share a few beers together before this journey ends.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the feedback. I see the wisdom in it, too. Very helpful.

Dave. Dave Dave Dave. Bro. We've got to get in touch with ourselves. We've got to find out what's going on in there. 'Cuz you know as well as I do that the feeling of blissful ignorance gets shattered from time to time when the Demon decides to be HEARD. Perhaps this is not making sense, but I just have these crushing emotional experiences every several years or so, and it's coming from inside. Something wants out. You get that too?

I'll drink to that.

BTW Moses, just in the interest of a progress report, remember that granddaughter with gastroskesis? She is the most beautiful creature in the world. If you PM me an email address, I'll forward a pic.

Jim

Nope. Probably haven't felt a real emotion in 10+ years. Other than my daughter being born, but that's been pure joy to date. Agreed though, not at all healthy.

Lights went off for me as well. But, I ask myself almost the opposite question re: my marriage--did I fall in love with the passionate side and ignore my big head? Have I made a choice from the heart to the detriment of other needs and desires? Are we just too different in what we think a healthy marriage should be?

I don't have answers...hell, I can't even figure out what the questions are sometimes.

Maybe Snipe has it figured out....an attitude my brother seems to embrace. Be like a dog...eat when you're hungry, drink when you're thirsty, fuch when you're horny....don't try to analyze or overthink things so much.

This is a ticking time bomb, Dave. Right now, as folks can see or at least imagine, I am having some emotional agony. It's painful, but I'm managing. A few years ago I had another emotional experience to deal with and I was not so lucky. I was not hospitalized, but it took several doctors and some pretty regulated drugs to get the tapes to stop playing in my head. I was truly a mess. I am fearful right now of a relapse of that. I think I'll be okay, but it's just another shot across my bow. I'm not going to ignore this one. I'm going to pursue this numbness problem before it rises up and smites me, or another innocent bystander, again.

I totally agree. And if we don't analyze things (relationships included) to death we might actually enjoy them.

I found that once the emotions shut down life became easier to deal with. Not giving a crap can be a blessing.
I used alcohol to numb myself, and after I had quit drinking, I had no desire to feel anything.
Not that any of that helps ya in any way, but I kinda know what you mean.

Been there, first half story very similar.
I really think that the depression plays a huge deal in all of this, sort of a mini-suicide kind of thing. Need to get a handle on your own self confidence and thought process before you try to figure the relationship thing out.

Don't deny yourself pleasure-roll with it. So you screwed up once-doesn't mean you're doomed forever.

Heh, it is funny. Some of my close friends tell me that they consider me their 'rock'. As in, I'm always the same old Dave, nothing gets me down, I'm always smiling and persevering. This I take as the highest compliment, as I am humbled by the opportunity to be of service to my friends. Nonetheless, it seems like there might be a lesson there, somewhere.

I almost feel like I'd let everybody down if I had a meltdown. :D

This thread is about you though - don't let me highjack. The Dave abides. Coming from a fellow dysfunctional guy, I don't think you lost an opportunity here. If anything, you stayed too long and perhaps missed other opportunities. My crystal-ball prediction - when the right woman comes along, she will elicit that emotional response within you. The challenge for you will be to learn from your experiences in approaching it...yet without overthinking it. That seems to be when we are our own worst enemies. Over-analyzing.

Had a girlfriend, can't even remember which anymore, that would regularly blow up at my tendency to overanalyze. Guilty as charged....

bingo

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Married twice, divorced twice, dated a number of women since the last divorce over the past 5 years. Still get along great with ex wife #2 as we have to parent the boy. But she is a great intellectual match. Smart, funny, tall, attractive, makes good money. But lack of a real physical relationship and some issues over not speaking up for things proved to be too much in the end. After that I fell in love a number of times, but each time it didn't work and finally I sorted out part of the issue. I was in love with the *idea* of being madly in love. I felt that it had to be head-over-heels or nothing. And when you combine that with a fear of being alone, bad choices get made.

Fast forward to a little over two years ago. I meet a woman who is a good fit, I start my usual pattern, then *she* wigs out due to an ex. I backed off and finally retrenched my position. At that point I vowed to date more than one person and not utter the "L" word for at least the next 6 months. I did just that, seeing a couple of different people, and the one who wigged out re-entered the scene. At this point she had done her retrenching as well. We began dating again but I went way slow, still seeing other people. Finally after about 6 months I stopped seeing anyone else. Uttered the "L" word but didn't go beyond that and was very clear about being "one day at a time", "enjoy the moment" and not making any long-term commitments.

Fast forward to today, we're still together. She wants to move in, but I've held off so far. Why? Well, part of it is because I actually like having time to myself. Plus I want to go slow dealing with the issues around my son. But I'm also not in that maniacal "oh, gotta have her, she'll leave if I don't move heaven and earth for her" mind set. I love her a lot, and love spending time with her. She is a great intellectual and physical match. But I'm not maniacally "madly in love" with her. And to be honest, I think that actually might be the best thing for long term prospects. There is something seductive about the burning passion, but I have found the downsides outweigh the positive. The rush just isn't worth the mistakes.

ymmv. And we may move in together this summer. I'll have to see how I feel tomorrow :p

Supe / Dave / Others,

You need help. No joking here. You need professional help. Some kind of Head Doc or therapist. I am not up on the different varieties and there are a few.

I really mean it. A good therapist can open those doors and make the color come back to life.

Good luck all of you. You can do it.

Larry

I would personally stay far away from shrinks. Those are among the most fked up people on earth. If you need a place to talk, we are always here. :)

You are under the assumption that seeing everything in black and white is a bad thing.

No offense meant Bill, but I think your position is utterly and completely wrong on this subject. While this is an excellent venue for discussion, it simply cannot compare to what a qualified professional therapist can do to help you. I will grant that a lot of head shrinkers are pretty messed up, but they can provide insight that you are not going to get here. Human beings are social animals. You put yourself in a vulnerable position in a serious relationship, but with that risk there is the potential for great reward. I will confess that I would not piss on my ex-wife if she were on fire, but from that union came a son and daughter that made the ordeal that marriage was worth it. You protect yourself from being hurt by avoiding or denying love, but you are missing so much. That great risk-great reward thing is for real/

Yup.

Seriously Superman, you need to sit down with some kind of head shrinker. A lot of people think it is a bunch of mumbo jumbo, but this is as dangerous as the crushing chest pain you see in a heart attack, the ticking time bomb is an apt metaphor.

I may pitch you a large ration of sh-t here from time to time, but this can be a life threatening type of deal. In the last six months, two different people that I went to grade school and middle school with committed suicide. I am not saying that is your fate, but please take this as seriously as is warranted.

Toby

+1.

All due respect to Tobra, but i am seriously allergic to shrinks. Every one of them i have ever known on a personal level was an absolute loon. I had a date with a psychologist one time and she ended up knocking herself out cold in a fit of rage. CRAAAZY.

I'm a big fan of therapy to sort stuff out. The challenge is finding a good one that you can work with. The other downside I've seen is some people get "addicted" to therapy and never stop. A good psychologist is actually working to lose your business at some point.

Supe, I imagine you explained yourself as well as you could to this woman... if you opened up to her as much as you did to us, she will get past the pain of the breakup a lot sooner than if you hadn't even tried to explain.

BTDT... on both sides of the equation, and can say for sure that it does help the dumpee to know that they didn't cause the breakup.

Best wishes... and I echo those who say that it would be a good idea to search out a good psychiatrist. Confide this in some close friends and ask for some recommendations.

I'm with Snipe on this one. I have pretty much the same attitude.. Not that I couldn't fall in love, but life is so much simpler without it.. I wake up happy pretty much every day of my life..

I will put in that almost every head shrinker I have met is totally whacked. They get into the biz because they see the need or they simply might be stark raving mad? Who knows. Bottom line is that there are some AMAZING therapists. I use a growth coach for work. Two women. One is business. One is a head shrinker. I wouldn't have gone had I known that there was a head shrinker. After 2.5 months, I am seeing significant improvements in my performance. The shrinker is a huge part of this.

On a very personal note, my uncle killed himself about 2 years ago. You know, the guy I bonded with because my Dad and I don't get along? The guy who turned me on to fly fishing? Porsches? Sales? Just about everything in my life?

I take this very seriously folks. Yes the Head docs are loons. But they are very helpful loons.

I am more than happy to give you a pep talk if you need it. PM me for more.

Larry

Same here. Dueller or anyone else, i am always here to offer my unconventional brand of "wisdom." ;)

Hey Super, sorry to read about your dilema, truly. I hope you find some relief in your peeps posts here? I'm not sure we can relate with each other, but I can tell you that I've been a student of life my whole life and I'm constantly searching for the 'answer'.

Just before I hit 30 I realized that I needed to make my marriage work, so I did and I always will, that's who I am now and its not going to change. So we're different there. But I have discovered a secret to life that I'm currently enjoying playing with.......

We create happiness within by the realization of new and worthwhile dreams and goals; beit relationships, stuff, what have you. Most of our dreams and goals come from seeds of understanding what we don't want, the challenges in our lives. These challenges create new desires.

The 'sweet spot' of life comes from the realization that you are accomplishing one of these personal goals, at the moment that you realize you've won the game...... sweet victory. It may last only a moment, a day, month or year; but it never lasts. From the sweet spot of life we must dive into the challenges head first to determine our new dreams and desires; then work towards those new desires and when we hit the sweet spot again, ohhhhh, that's life.

Somewhere along the line people get conformed, they lose hope, they quit searching, they get complacent or they defer their desires. Go ahead, start over, but get a dream and hold onto it, its the essence of life imo.

Sounds to me like you let a good women go? I'm not sure why, but maybe its because there is no sweet spot left in the relationship? Relationships take work, you get out what you put in. I hope you feel better ;)

Supe-

I'm considerably younger than you, but here are my thoughts:

You mention that you had a major issue a few years ago and you are worried about a relapse. In my experience, you won't relapse for the simple reason that you've been down that road before, and you are already recognizing it. It's hard to mess up twice.

Take care of yourself first. This sounds dumb to some people, but get physically active right away. Go for a long walk every day, or for a run. Go to the gym, whatever, Just get your body physically tired- this is better than any drug you can get. It helps me to feel physically good, and allows me to separate my body and mind to better handle the bigger issues in life. Give this a try for a few days- I bet ANYTHING it helps. I was in a very bad place about 6 years ago, and this was a tremendous help to me.

As for the woman, only you truly know how to handle it. Get yourself feeling sorted, and then worry about it. I think things like women have to come without effort- if it is meant to be, it will happen. If not, so be it.

Keep your head up.

The honesty is strong here. And bravery. Some things I learned: Be kind to strangers; they are locked in battle. We all struggle; most survive. Regret kills.

+1,000,000

99.99% of them go into psych to try to figure out why they're so fked up. In the case of psychs the bad apples are the norm.

Supe, I have no advice for you. But I personally am going to be staying away from PARF, politics in general, the news, and anything not related to my immediate community. It's fking toxic.

I go in phases. I won't go onto PARF for months at a time, then i jump in with 2 feet to get myself covered in poo every once in a while. ;)

Super, I would imagine some of our earlier background is very similar. I married the wrong woman and didn't get out for over 20 years because of kids, screwed up religious upbringing, low self esteem, not wanting to be the bad guy and +1,000 other reasons. It took me a few tries to find a therapist I could connect with but once I did it was a great experience. We spent quite a bit of time talking about why I couldn't feel anything or identify my emotional state.

It's a process and there are many ways to tackle it but don't discount good professional help.

I met a woman who was the opposite of my ex. A great and warm intimate relationship ensued but I couldn't commit to her long term for a variety of reasons and was up front about that. Still, if things in her life had been different we'd still be together and I'm talking about the more rationale stuff. Her kids were a mess, etc. and I wasn't willing to be the one to rescue her. I'm now in a relationship with a great woman and both the physical and rationale sides work well but there are times, days, weeks where I wonder if I wouldn't be better off alone. I think I suffer from the "grass is always greener" syndrome where I assume sometimes what I don't have will be better than what I do.

I check in with my shrink every so often but I agree with Nostatic, it's something that has to have an end in sight, not a life long conversation. Best of luck.

Supe,

I thought about PM'ing you but decided to roll the dice. Please take any comments I make with a pillar of salt. I have said it before and I'll say it again, you're on my bucket list of bubbas to meet: you are a unique mix, in the most positive sense. That and I've see your rather pale ale, if you know what I mean.

There are more cliches' describing life's roils than grains of sand; more notions on how to improve than actual improvement.

So, pick one, or don't. It is that easy since there are no new revelations. You get to decide whether you get in touch with your lost youth or your lost friend, you get to ride the horse or stay in the stable, shoveling manure. Choices mean responsibility, commitment. Opt in or opt out. Your call. That is the essence and beauty of life...you get to make the call.

My Dad, the engineer, told me that life resembles a sinusoidal wave (he ready did), and that it is best to take a steady pull, dampen the troughs and the highs, understand the immutable laws of life: sometimes you're the bat, sometimes your're the ball.

One last thing, as trite and time honored a navy cliche' as has ever been written: Don't steer by the wake.

I wish you all the best.

Crystal ball reading.

You can't commit because she is too nice, too easy. You need someone that you can make love you, so that you can prove that you are lovable. Someone in your past didn't give you what you needed. Of course I am making this all up, but there are only about twelve explanations for your story, and I just picked one. Of course it is always safer to avoid getting close to someone, as you will never have to risk the experience of loss again.

Depression should be treated as a serious thing. Getting help is a good thing, as it may get you onto some sort of medication, or at least in touch with your feelings. Don't do it for yourself. Do it for your children. That would be a good reason, wouldn't it ?

Ramm, that is so insightful. And true. You recognize your flaws, mistakes and you hopefully face them. What is hard to deal with is that a lot of people, including me, keep dreaming about those failings when they sleep. With a few of you that I have met when I got to "lubricated", I've shared some of my personal history. Well-to-do upbringing, fell down BIG, BIG time in my late teens (in ways that would open most of you would never have imagined, and I'm not going to post here) , got back up, put myself through undergraduate and graduate school at huge personal effort, and am doing very well at age 55. All I can do is say "I am what I am" and I look in the mirror and have no one to praise or blame but who I see. I don't want this to sound petty or contrite, but Supe, you can definitely get through this. You're apparently active, health and employed. You are in a better financial and security conditon than about 90% of the World population. After what I've seen in the world, you are a prince among men, relatively speaking.

;)i went to a therapist service thru the university years ago, and i was a great naysayer.

my girlfriend dragged me in as she was seeing them too, and knew i was a bit f****d up. (deservedly) i was amazed! it was great.

something that gal friend said echoes in my head a lot. one day she said " I wasn't the one who hurt you, was I?"

that woke me up. no more pity parties.

i did not continue in class therapy, but became proactive. If such a wonderful woman saw so much in me, why didn't I see it??

, but i was among a lot of very positive people, Mark Victor Hansen (chicken soup for the fill in the blank) and such motovational persons, and friends, who helped me, but i did have to change my way of thinking, and let go of some anger.

i also did a lot of reading of good therapists books, and relationship books.

The Dance trilogies by Harriet Lerhner, Gary Smalley , etc, pretty much every self help and relationship book i had ever heard of, and many that i just picked up and skimmed thru.

i think that i reprogrammed myself. ive spent nearly 15 years roaming around and learning, and enjoying being alone since my divorce. i think i am ready, but finding that person is requiring me to go out of my selfish box.

another friend , whose wife can be VERY trying, when I asked him how he could stay with her replied simply with a smile, and said, "ya just gotta love them" he recently turned me on to a website out of here (kansas city area) that he is currently working with. a relationship site. will try to find it and send you a link.

a primary point i feel is important is ya gotta like yourself a lot first before you can ever love and understand anyone else.

i know that you know how to fix this. So start!!

Thanks for making my eyes leak, Supe.

still dealing....