Nice Job Enviromentalists

[ODDJOB UNO]

i have spent more time than i care to remember at the mint 400,primm, barstow to vegas,lucerne valley and gold coast off road races and NOT ONCE pre-running or racing have we EVER come upon a TORTUGA!


BLM re: primm race have been total dork weeds about the entire deal.


now look at how much land they have closed off from barstow to vegas. and even IF YOU NAPALMED IT you couldnt hurt it.


yeah thats right, us offroaders drive into cactus,thru rocks, and have guns hanging off/on dirty bikes and race cars/trucks shooting the hell out of every sign we see, and having TORTUGA BAR-B-QUES so BLM will invite us back NEXT YEAR!


what a joke!


BLM stands for BOOGERING LIFE for MANY!



just had to get my new once a year az OHV registration sticker. $25 bucks a year or they will fine the HELL out of you. and wheres that money going??????????



for more gates and fences and NO TRESPASSING SIGNS to close off MORE LAND because they are TOO LAZY and TOO CHEAP to have people patrolling it keeping the riff raff out!


let alone setting up lil tortuga nursuries and feeking up their bazzillion year old habitat for solar.


why not put those solar panels on the roofs of casinos and on the goofy golf courses!



its kind of like the gubbermint banning honda mini bikes because of lead based paint used on painting their frames. lord knows how many kids sleep with their mini bikes and LICK THEIR FRAMES CLEAN of dirt every day.



the now MANDATED OHV plate and registration has basically become if BLM/AZGFD sees a OHV/UHV/dirty bike..................the lights are coming on no matter what and they are pulling YOU/ME over to check plates and registration anywhere anytime.


unless your on a TORTUGA APPROVED NO MOLESTE DE TORTUGA CLOSED RACE COURSE!


never in my entire off road racing career have i even seen a picture of a SMOOSHED TORTUGA let alone read about (1) getting smooshed.



now without admitting guilt and taking the 5th, i may have run over rattlesnakes a few times and quite possibly a lizard or (2) and have hit a java-leaner and run into a COW! but that was back when we were riding with charles manson and having TORTUGA BAR-B-QUES, so my memory is kind of clouded.


it might have happened, it could have happened, it quite possibly did happen, but i really dont remember it happening.

[RWebb]

"land... and even IF YOU NAPALMED IT you couldnt hurt it."

you are completely wrong re not being able to damage the area - desert lands are extremely fragile, even if you aren't aware enuff to notice

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by RWebb

James - I agree, tho this plant is meant to supply LA & the SW -- getting that part of the US "all solared up" would help a lot.

Mass production and further R&D will bring down the cost of PV solar. It has already fallen quite a bit.

It needs to come down by a factor of 4, installed...

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by RWebb

you are completely wrong re not being able to damage the area - desert lands are extremely fragile, even if you aren't aware enuff to notice

I frankly do not give a d@@mn.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I frankly do not give a d@@mn.

OK, Scarlet...

[chapo]

I don't know how badly the turtles are going to be impacted by moving them, but it should be obvious that having chapo crushing them with an ORV is bad for them - DUH

Nice job as always RWebb. I didn't mention anything about ORV's, I don't own one, just pointing out some hypocrisy, but hey, keep living in your perfect little bubble.

[RWebb]

thx - I do enjoy the bubble.

sorry to have made a wrong guess about your 1st post -- I agree it seems like hypocrisy to let them be jeopardized by this but not by ORVs (tho the US Fish & Wildlife Service might argue soalr power is more important).


Scarlet's post is about a policy preference - he doesn't care if endangered species go extinct. Congress already decided what the policy was going to be -- to protect endangered species and prevent them from going extinct (with some rare exceptions), so that's a non-starter for me.

[ODDJOB UNO]

hey webbster, heres a lil tip to someone who hasnt a CLUE about offroad racing let alone the dezert that i have lived in for 53 freeking years when this WAS A (1) horsey town!

now what does more damage? a dirt bike or horses? hmmmmm?


what does more damage? cattle or a dirt bike?


have they PERFECTED FLAT PROOF tires yet? aside from michelin bib mousses'? which run as if ya had a 100psi in them.


now please 'splain to me how a quad,dirty bike,buggy, trophy truck cuts brand new roads thru the pristine dezert?



have they perfected them so they can go right thru rocks? thru cholla? run over 300ft sag-huaros(saguaros).


YOU TWIT? roads/trails are EXISTING? more than likely started by horses,cattle,miners hauling ore in wagons, bulldozed for fire roads(the majority).



there is no way in hell you can destroy the sonoran/mojave dezert with OHV's unless you are a TOTAL IDIOT and LIKE LOTS OF FLAT TIRES!


sure azzholes leave their garbage out there, they leave their garbage right next to your freeways also.


as always its a few who screw it up for everyone.


so lets use baja(no real environmental laws) as an example.............i drop scads of money into a race car truck dirty bike. yep the 1st thing i want to do is cut the course and CHEAT!


well numnuts all participants NOW HAVE DATA RECORDERS and if you cut the course you are DQ'd. and to add insult to injury more than likely you have impacted on the core/mantle of the earth and damaged critical components and probably have a lap full of CHOLLA CACTUS for your misguided efforts. all u.s.a. races for SCORE also have data recorders also. it is a closed course.


now maybe ya wanna tell me, that OHV's have screwed up colorado's high elevations? dont think so peudner. existing trails dating back to mid 1800's when miners were hauling ore out.



granted once again we have idiots from all walks of life who think doing donuts in a pristine meadow is cool. thereby causing erosion etc. but on the other side of the coin we have idiots driving down YOUR STREET TODAY DRUNK!



name the sport, name the venue, name the area on the planet, its screwed up. why?



BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE NO DAMN GOOD!

[lane912]

Oregon sees this as "a thing humans want to do in the outdoors" and is creating areas that are specifically designed for that activity including signs letting hikers know there are motor vehicles on the trails.
you cant hurt the froest arround here, it grows too damn fast!

[ODDJOB UNO]

the forest the dezert the oceans the lakes the streams ARE ALL MULTI-USE!



"this land is my land................this land is your land."



the dumbazz BLM and U.S.F.S continue to close lands off..............and then ALLOW THEM TO BURN!



figure that one out and get back to me on that EINSTEIN REASONING!



and as we have all seen..........................."PRESCRIBED BURNS GETTING AWAY" from them. ya just gotta love that!

[Tobra]

Ironically, hunters and off roaders do more and are more environmentally aware as a group than the enviro whackos.

[sammyg2]

By the way, the starting point of that barstow to vegas race was actually daggett, right next to the solar energy plant.
The one they bulldozed last year.
It was deemed not economically feasable long ago, and was redesigned with different technology, which was also not economically feasable.
I worked on the original plant in 1981 and also on solar two (the second fail).

They had to pay companies to run it as it lost money, it could not compete, the energy it produced was way too costly.
So they abandoned it a couple of times and eventually tore it down.
Now they are building a plant using the same technology that didn't work 30 years ago.
But, it's actually worse than that! Solar one had one tower. This plant has 12 of those towers, using the same technology, so it will be 12 times as costly to operate and 12 times as inneficient!
It's the same as the one that didn't work except they are building 12 bad ones to replace one bad one. There will be little to no economy of scale on this project, no cost savings from building more than one, excerpt possibly a little money saved in staffing. Not enough to notice.

The only way they can make this one work is the same way they made the last one work (for a while), the government has to pay for it to be built and pay for it to be operated.

The gubmint will give them our tax money, and will force us to buy that over-priced electricity and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it.

It will not be unusual in 10 years for Californian households to be paying $800 a month or more for electricity thanks to boondoggles like this one and AB32.

Solar One was a pilot solar-thermal project built in the Mojave Desert just east of Barstow, CA, USA.

It was the first test of a large-scale thermal solar power tower plant. Solar One was designed by the Department of Energy (DOE), Southern California Edison, LA Dept of Water and Power, and California Energy Commission. It was located in Daggett, CA, about 10 miles (16 km) east of Barstow.

Solar One's method of collecting energy was based on concentrating the sun's energy onto a common focal point to produce heat to run a steam turbine generator. It had hundreds of large mirror assemblies, or heliostats, that track the sun, reflecting the solar energy onto a tower where a black receiver absorbed the heat. High-temperature heat transfer fluid was used to carry the energy to a boiler on the ground where the steam was used to spin a series of turbines, much like a traditional power plant.

In the late 1970s, a competition was held by DoE to obtain the best heliostat design for the project. Several promising designs were selected and prototypes were built and shipped to the area for testing. Trade-offs involved simplicity of construction to minimize costs for high-volume manufacturing versus the need for a reliable, bi-directional tracking system that could maintain focus on the tower. Rigidity of the structure was a major concern in terms of wind load resistance and durability, but shading of the mirrors by support structures was to be avoided.

The project produced 10 MW of electricity using 1,818 mirrors, each 40 m² (430 ft²) with a total area of 72,650 m² (782,000 ft²). Solar One was completed in 1981 and was operational from 1982 to 1986. Later redesigned and renamed Solar Two, it can be seen from Interstate 40 where it covers a 51 hectare (126 acre) site, not including the administration building or rail yard facilities shared with a neighboring plant. Solar One/Two and other nearby solar projects are plainly visible via satellite imaging software at 34°52′18″N 116°50′03″W / 34.87167°N 116.83417°W / 34.87167; -116.83417.

[daepp]

There is some kind of mirrored solar plant up the 395 north of Adelanto. So many mirrors - looks like a pain to keep operational.

[sammyg2]

scroll down to the cost of solar, scary. And that is from rhe same people who are shoving it down our throats!

[red-beard]

That chart is a keeper!

[RWebb]

too bad it doesn't include all the costs


Charles tried to change the subject to whether ORVs do more damage than horses & cows. Answer - it depends.

[red-beard]

What costs are missing?