Guitar question

[DanielDudley]

Ovation makes a guitar with an molded back that is designed to reflect the sound. I believe Glenn Campbell used to play one.

That is the only ''modern design'' guitar I know of. They are actually fair pieces.

I have heard that older Martins were better than new ones because Martin lost a warehouse due to a fire, and lost a lot of seasoned wood.

It is often true that if you have a bunch of guitar players up on a stage, one guitar will sound better and cleaner than all the rest.
Players are always looking for that blend of good action and magic sound.

Well seasoned wood makes for a nice acoustic guitar. Wood mellows with age.

[esample]

Lots of good points made here. I agree with Nostatic in his assertion that Fender guitars/basses of the 70s are not as good as the ones made today. The CBS years were the worst in Fender's history as far as quality instruments.

But SloDave makes lots of good points and his observations are very valid. Check out this video and while you're there listen to demos of various guitars played by Phil X. He only uses a couple of different amps so you only hear the difference in guitars of various makes and vintages. You should be able to appreciate the difference in guitars made in the 90s and those built in the 50s-60s. If not, then it doesn't matter to you and that's cool too.

[9dreizig]

Just a point of reference I just picked up a Mexican strat for 200. Really can't tell the difference from my instructors American made $800 one

[lm6y]

As you guys are checking out vintage guitars, and basses, If you find a Natuaral pre-CBS P-Bass, with a maple neck, and a serial number of 501999. It's hot, and it's mine...
He also answers to the name of Fred.

True story.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by slodave

Honestly, I don't know too much about Fender.... When I start my Tele w/B-Bender project next year or so, I'll read up on their history more. I do know that since a lot of Fenders are solid colors, it was easy for them to use laminates, even pre-CBS. Not like plywood, but up to 3 blocks glued together to get the width for the body. Your new P-bass could very well be a better made, solid body.

Nope - mine is 3-piece. Don't equate a single piece body with "better made." That does not track. It is easy to fall into much of the "builder's lore," which is a mix of fact and fiction. I know of plenty $4K+ instruments that are made of 2-piece bodies. In fact it can be easier to get a good sounding instrument from a multi-piece as you can tone/grain match and get consistent response across the wood.

Examples:

[slodave]

Actually, it does matter. If the joints are not good, tone suffers. Not just a music going though. Same holds true for furniture making. Not that tone is an issue there, but things happen as the joints swell and contract mainly glue cracking and joints failing. Glue cracking in a musical instrument is not a good thing either.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by slodave

Actually, it does matter. If the joints are not good, tone suffers. Not just a music going though. Same holds true for furniture making. Not that tone is an issue there, but things happen as the joints swell and contract mainly glue cracking and joints failing. Glue cracking in a musical instrument is not a good thing either.

If you dry your wood properly and use proper construction, that isn't a problem. The pics I showed are all $4K+ basses made by some of the best builders in the biz. They can use single piece bodies (and do on request), but they can build a better and more consistent instrument with a two-piece body. Thousand and thousands of instruments have been made with multi-piece bodies including most of the vintage Fenders that have been beat on for 50+ years.

[slodave]

Todd, please stop with the small custom guys. It's a different ballgame. You referenced how your current, new P-bass, sounded better than 3 vintage P-basses. Leo Fender was a radio guy and knew nothing about woodworking or building guitars. My earlier point was that it's possible that the old Fender products were not always up to specs. If you don't joint/plane the ends of the wood correctly, you get a crappy joint - fact. If the joint is load bearing, it probably will fail at some point. If the joint is bad and is painted, it's easy to use wood filler to fill the cracks. It's also easy to mix up a diluted wood glue and add sawdust and use it as a filler, which is stronger than putty, but still not a good joint at the end of the day.

As for the Fenders, when the blocks were glued together, quality control may have been lacking and while the glued piece may look good on either side, there could be many areas that are hidden, that are not making contact. That will affect the way a guitar/bass sounds.

Also, if you move too slowly on a jointer, you can end up with lots of waves. While the wave will be very minor and some may think that it is okay to glue and it kind of is for general woodworking, it really is not. None of us know what went on at the Fender or Gibson factories years ago. I was only giving you a suggestion based on many years of woodworking.

The guys you keep talking about don't pump out guitars to the scale of Gibson or Fender. They also will take 6+ months to get a guitar finished. Believe me, I know that it would be impossible for Gibson to do what I have been doing and meet their production goals. Their own custom department has had a heck of a time reproducing an accurate '59 reissue.

The routes I am doing for the control cavity were scrapped by Gibson, in favor for a metal plate and long shaft pots. Why, because these routes are a ****ing *****! It's easier and cheaper to do what they are doing now.

BTW, it's also far less expensive to buy long boards, and glue two pieces up to make the width you need. It's also harder to find the blanks needed for one piece bodies. I have done the same thing for furniture, for the same reasons.

[GH85Carrera]

Another amazing thing to me is that there really is no substitute for wood. With all the high tech materials of the 21st century no one can replace an OLD dead tree.

Why is no one making an aluminum & carbon fiber guitar with the proper computer gizmos to make it sound like it should?

[crikett]

There are actually quite a few makers out there using all kinds of composites and a few using aluminum (and the history of all of these materials can be traced back to various guitars, mainly bass necks, in the '70s). Many of these represent the potential for pretty amazing, and very even tone. Though there will probably always be some debate if only because we've grown accustomed to what may be less perfect tone.

Rainsong guitars are some pretty amazing acoustics made of carbon fibre, and Alumsonic is a great check point for an aluminum guitar. For more historic and mainstream example, the old Kramer bases with the aluminum necks, or anything made by Steinberger (materials aside, his Transtrem and tuners also deserve some major mention for their designs).

I think Ken Parker's designs deserve special note as well with the use of composite materials to reinforce wood, which allows for very light bodies using some tone woods which would otherwise be too light and lacking in strength to perform (his original designs largely used ebony for reinforcement, but as designs moved towards production things became much more space aged).

[esample]

How about a steel one?

[nostatic]

A number of builders have been using carbon fiber necks for many years. I owned a couple of Zons and they had some advantages - most notably they were incredibly stable and never required any truss rod tweaking.