handspoon Q's

[Taz's Master]

What distance do you shoot at to measure your accuracy?

What size groups are you satisfied with at that range?

[Joe Bob]

15-25 feet.....

[Taz's Master]

Dude, I think you need more practice. Groups of 15 to 25 feet probably are more dangerous to bystanders than the target.

[azasadny]

I'm happy with 3" groups at 25ft

[Taz's Master]

I suppose I should include 2 more questions:

Rest or Offhand?

How many rounds to a group?

[fred cook]

I would think that it would largely depend on the handgun that was being fired. If I am shooting say a Colt Detective Special with a 2" bbl, then I would likely hold the distances to around 15 feet or so. However, if I were to be shooting a pistol or revolver with a 6" bbl and good adjustable sights, then a distance of 50 feet or so would be reasonable. I have fired a target grade .22 pistol at distances up to 100 yds before while indulging in some informal friendly competition with my shooting buddies.

[masraum]

I do most of my practice at 7 yds, but I'll also run it out to 15yds occasionally because its easier to gauge.

As far as group size, probably 2 - 3"at seven yards.

[svandamme]

my best was a 5 inch group at 25 meters, one handed, .22, 5 shots
at 10 meters i shot 5 in an inch and a half...one handed, 5 shots, .22


But i'm not consistent enough yet, i only started last december, gone shooting like 10 times or so...And because i'm new, i don't have my own weapon, it's with a club beater... don't have a shooter of my own yet, need to wait a bit longer before i can legally put one in my name.

In the club competition, i'm at 160 /200 , the regulars are doing 180+, the instructor does 195 averages... They all have match target pistols..

[Bill Douglas]

At the range I go to it tends to be mainly ISSF shooting. So just about everything is 25 yards offhand. I like yo get everything in the 8" (black area of the target) and I expect to get a 10 and a couple of 9 rings on the target each magazine I empty.

We occassionally shoot a "service pistol" shoot that starts at 50 yards and finishes at 10 yards which includes shooting from the hip, and 3 targets at 25 yards with 6 shots in 4 seconds.

By practicing at longer ranges, it makes you and excellent shot at close range.

[Jeff Higgins]

Never less than 25 yards, because those are the closest targets at my home range. Groups are one cylinder full from revolvers and five shots from autos.

Accuracy depends a great deal upon the gun and the sights it is fitted with. I won't keep any handgun, regardless of caliber or configuration, that I cannot make group 3" or less from a rest at that range. I'll put a lot of effort into load development before I give up, but this is my minimum standard for things like small defensive revolvers ("snubbies") with fixed sights and service autos.

Hunting revolvers are held to a much higher standard. I keep working on them until they are in the 2" or under range, from a rest, at 25 yards. We then move on to pop cans and/or clay birds set at 100 yards, and keep at it until we are hitting the vast majority of those from field positions. When I can do that with a given revolver, then I feel I'm ready to hunt with it.

As far as off-hand shooting, that only starts after load development and ascertaining whether or not the gun is a "keeper" based on its performance from a rest at 25 yards. From there, I keep at it off hand until I can shoot it into 3"-4" at 25 yards. If I can't do that consistently, I'll do things like get the trigger worked if I think that is the problem, put different grips on it, or whatever. If I just can't shoot it, it eventually goes. Sometimes we just don't get along.

So, my expectations are twofold. I look for inherent mechanical accuracy by shooting from a rest. I look for "shootability" by shooting offhand and from field positions used while hunting. Guns can pass the first, but if they don't pass the latter, they are eventually sold.

[Taz's Master]

Thanks for the responses, I hope handspooners continue to post here (very disapointed in Sniper's vacation), both experienced and inexperienced.

I'm pretty new to these little things. I don't consider myself a very good shot, but I am improving (by shooting lots). I have the advantage of being able to shoot in my yard, and I've worked through a pile of .22's. Offhand I'm getting 3" to 5" groups from a Single Six at 25 yards.

The 3 things that make the most significant difference in my groups are: Sight Picture, Grip, and Trigger Pull.

I tend to get lazy, and can lose focus on my front post (this does not help accuracy).

I try to grip so that the barrel is in line with my forearm and my index finger is at the top of the trigger, high on the grip (almost high enough to interfere with the hammer), and pretty tight, my hand gets tired. Two handed, pushing with my gun hand pulling with my support hand. Trying to cock the hammer with my support hand, because using my gun hand shifts my grip, but bad habits...

Trigger pull has the biggest impact. Grip influences the pull for me, I have to keep from tightening my grip as I squeeze the trigger. I have to isolate the index finger, and increase pressure until it fires, if I try to pull the trigger when I have a good sight picture, it's a flyer every time.

I'd like to get input as to techniques to use to improve accuracy as well.

Jeff, can't you just stand closer to the target to get distances less than 25yds? And seriously, pop cans and clay birds at 100yds, what do you have for a front sight? My blade would cover them completely, I had trouble seeing cans at 50yds (was happy I hit more than I missed) due to the size of my front sight. That's shooting I would like to be able to do.

[Bill Douglas]

LOL, it sounds like you are an excellent shot already.

And +1 on that trigger pull. I work it out so my finger is at right angles to the barrel when it breaks so I don't get "push to the left" or "pull to the right".

Another trick is to check the gun is empty then tape a laser pointer to the barrel and dry fire at a dot on the wall and watch what happens to the laserpointer when the trigger breaks.

[sc_rufctr]

25 meters was the standard in the Army... 3 Shots was considered a group.

[Jeff Higgins]

Is your Single Six a newer gun with the transfer bar? Single action Rugers, be they Single Sixes, Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks, or Vaqueros, are endowed with some of the worst triggers ever put on a handgun. They have to have a good deal of creep, take up, or whatever you want to call it, in order to lift that transfer bar. If you can manage to shoot one well, you have accomplished something. I keep a couple around as trail guns, for defensive purposes more than hunting - that darn trigger makes longer range work tough.

All of my sixguns simply have issue sights as delivered by the factory. The key to shooting at distances beyond where the gun is zeroed is to hold some front sight up above the rear sight to compensate for the range. This way, you can still place the target on top of the sight, and still use a six o'clock hold on it, and still see the target.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

LOL, it sounds like you are an excellent shot already.

And +1 on that trigger pull. I work it out so my finger is at right angles to the barrel when it breaks so I don't get "push to the left" or "pull to the right".

Another trick is to check the gun is empty then tape a laser pointer to the barrel and dry fire at a dot on the wall and watch what happens to the laserpointer when the trigger breaks.

I'm not an excellent shot, but I am getting better. (I might have a couple of targets that indicate I do ok, but the body of work isn't excellent.) Over the course of a couple of months, I've gone from groups of 4"-6" at 7 yards to 3"-5" at 25 yards. I shot a 5" 5 shot group at 50yds tonight. Problem is there was a 6th shot that took it to 7+". Had a 2.75" 6 shot group at 25yds as well. But a couple over 4". I'm very pleased with sub 3" groups at 25yds right now. The gun shoots better than I can, and I'd like to start seeing several good targets, rather than one really good, 2 ok and 3 that I'm not proud of. I do like that I know which shots are my bad ones (it used to be I'd have no idea which shots were good and which were bad).

The laserpointer idea seems pretty good, but I understand that you shouldn't dry fire a .22.

[Joe Bob]

As a civilian.....a handgun is a defensive protection device.

ANYTHING beyond 25 feet is NOT a defensiveable position.

Banging the asshat that is in yer nubile daughters room....the douche who is servicing Momz whilst you be doing yer bimbo....

Hard to to justify 25+ YARDS and a back penetration..........

BUT if youse a PD/sworn ossifer and have a union......

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

As a civilian.....a handgun is a defensive protection device.

It's also one hell of a good hunting arm. I've killed a fair amount of game with them, and a pretty damn good pile of non-game (pest) animals as well.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Is your Single Six a newer gun with the transfer bar? Single action Rugers, be they Single Sixes, Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks, or Vaqueros, are endowed with some of the worst triggers ever put on a handgun. They have to have a good deal of creep, take up, or whatever you want to call it, in order to lift that transfer bar. If you can manage to shoot one well, you have accomplished something. I keep a couple around as trail guns, for defensive purposes more than hunting - that darn trigger makes longer range work tough.

All of my sixguns simply have issue sights as delivered by the factory. The key to shooting at distances beyond where the gun is zeroed is to hold some front sight up above the rear sight to compensate for the range. This way, you can still place the target on top of the sight, and still use a six o'clock hold on it, and still see the target.

Yes it is a transfer bar Single Six. Whether or not the trigger is bad or good, the .22 shoots better than I can.

The long range sight picture (high front post) I hadn't thought of, but still a clay bird at 100yds must be like trying to get a bead on the head of a nail at 25yds. It would be awful hard for me to see the target and focus on the front post. I can hit pop cans at 50yds, but that's only half way there. And it is the difficult half that is left. I'd love to shoot cans with confidence at 100yds.

[legion]

3-25 yards.

I like to shoot my defensive pistols at all ranges. I want to know how they shoot. I want to get to know them well.

[sc_rufctr]

Again... 25 meters for a hand spoon (and 100 meters for a rifle) 3 shots is a group but 5 is the norm.

25 meters sounds like a lot but it works. Try it sometime.