Stop the madness, organic food.

[GH85Carrera]

MASTIO: Dead bodies demand organic food moratorium - Washington Times

In the past two years, two public safety stories have dominated global news headlines - an explosion and oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico and a nuclear power plant meltdown in Japan. Yet in the recent German organic-food-disease outbreak, nearly twice as many people already have died as in the two other industrial disasters combined.

[jyl]

What is the evidence that the food safety problem is an "organic food" safety problem?

I read the article you linked, twice, and was unable to find any facts to suggest that organically produced food is associated with higher rates of food-borne illness that conventional produced food.

In fact, I noticed that the author never actually makes that claim. He tosses around words in a way designed to leave the careless reader with that impression, but never actually goes out on that limb. I rather think that, if there was evidence, he wouldn't be shy about trumpeting it.

For example, he complains about organic food that is not irradiated. But he never says that conventional food is irradiated. And in fact, the vast majority of conventional food is not irradiated.

Careless reading + clever writing = careless thinking.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by jyl

What is the evidence that the food safety problem is an "organic food" safety problem?

I read the article you linked, twice, and was unable to find any facts to suggest that organically produced food is associated with higher rates of food-borne illness that conventional produced food.

In fact, I noticed that the author never actually makes that claim. He tosses around words in a way designed to leave the careless reader with that impression, but never actually goes out on that limb. I rather think that, if there was evidence, he wouldn't be shy about trumpeting it.

For example, he complains about organic food that is not irradiated. But he never says that conventional food is irradiated. And in fact, the vast majority of conventional food is not irradiated.

Careless reading + clever writing = careless thinking.

it always comes down to the lowest denominator. that said, why don't we, in the USA, irradiate our food? it is cheap and effective.

[Gretch]

margins on fresh produce are extremely small. Costs to inprove quality or even test more effectively for pathogens cannot be any more than .2 cents (2 tenths of a cent) per pound to have anyone be even remotely interested.

THAT is the key variable.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Gretch

margins on fresh produce are extremely small. Costs to inprove quality or even test more effectively for pathogens cannot be any more than .2 cents (2 tenths of a cent) per pound to have anyone be even remotely interested.

THAT is the key variable.

that makes cents.

[sammyg2]

Doesn't matter if it's bad for the environment or if it kills you, as long as it's GREEN!

[teenerted1]

were any nuclear plants even scheduled to break ground since the japan tsunami?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jyl

What is the evidence that the food safety problem is an "organic food" safety problem?

+1
He inferred there was a connection, but didn't have the courage or conviction to make it explicitly.

Having said that, he did point out a problem:

"Organic food has grown into a multibillion-dollar global food enterprise driven by the very same bottom-line pressures that safety advocates blame for Tokyo Power and BP putting their corporate profits before public safety. "

[CurtEgerer]

That article was written last Weds when everyone only 'suspected' an organic farm. On Saturday, German authorities confirmed the tainted sprouts came from an organic farm south of Hamburg.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

That article was written last Weds when everyone only 'suspected' an organic farm.

So this guy demanded a moratorium on organic food because an organic farm was "suspected" of selling tainted sprouts?
Another reminder that the freedom of expression is also freedom to be stupid.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by teenerted1

were any nuclear plants even scheduled to break ground since the japan tsunami?

NRG in south Texas. Plans are now cancelled.

[jyl]

I've looked into this for chicken and E. Coli contamination. Per sampling by the NIH, Consumer Reports, etc, 40-50% of whole chickens bought in US supermarkets test positive for E. Coli. Some studies suggest the rate is lower for small local producers than for large national chicken brands, by about 10%. One study indicates the rate of contamination is higher among organic chicken, by about 10%. The rate of contamination by antibiotic-resistant strains of E. Coli (such that an infection cannot be treated by vancomycin or other common antibiotics) is significantly lower in organic chicken (probably because organic chickens are not supposed to be routinely fed antibiotics, as is common in conventional chicken production). So, for chicken at least, the facts are mixed.

By the way, supermarket ground beef is about equally likely to be contaminated. I grind my own beef from chuck, sirloin, etc rather than buying ground beef.

[Dottore]

That article is rubbish on so many levels. Talk about yellow journalism.....

[T77911S]

i was thinking more along the lines of the fact the crap tastes like cardboard and you can eat just as healthy and have food with flavour.

[jyl]

An organically grown apple tastes different from a conventionally grown apple? I hadn't noticed. Maybe you miss the taste of the pesticides.

Health

[GH85Carrera]

I thought it was just ironic that more people have DIED from organic sprouts than died from the Gulf oil spill & the Nuke meltdown combined. Those disasters cost mega billions of dollars, but for the folks that died from organic sprouts the cost was higher.

Obviously it is comparing apples to oranges, but it is still a higher death count.

The real question is why we don't demand that our food be irradiated.

[jyl]

I understand what you are saying, but what I don't see why you focus on "organic". Since you appear to lack any evidence that the "organic" part is relevant.

Why are you not focusing on the fact that they are "German" sprouts and not French? Or that they are "sprouts" as opposed to any other veg? Or that the sprouts were sold in "May" rather than in April? Or other factors that you also cited no evidence to consider relevant?

That is the logical disconnect.

Irradiating food - I don't have a strong opinion for or against. I think it might be better to grow/process/handle food in a way that minimizes contamination in the first place, but I haven't really looked into it.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I thought it was just ironic that more people have DIED from organic sprouts than died from the Gulf oil spill & the Nuke meltdown combined.

Time to do a little critical thinking here.
Is there in fact a connection between the organic nature of the food and the ecoli? There is nothing in the story other than the insinuation by the author.

Some people are masters at misdirection. Some of Ralph Nader's investigators were well known for presenting factual information in misleading ways. Bill O'Reilly on Fox is skilled at it too.

[jeffgrant]

I'd actually be quite impressed if anyone could provide an "official" definition of what makes something "organic". That's the biggest issue around here, as the "organic" label has been found to be mostly a marketing scam in a large number of cases.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by jeffgrant

I'd actually be quite impressed if anyone could provide an "official" definition of what makes something "organic". That's the biggest issue around here, as the "organic" label has been found to be mostly a marketing scam in a large number of cases.

I've spent a bit of time looking into this issue in your neighbourhood.

I think "organic" normally means products grown without the aid of chemical fertilizers or pesticides and, in the case of animals, without the use of hormones or any similar artificial growth aids. That's the minimum standard. Of course with meat there are additional issues relating to the manner in which the animal is kept and what it is fed.

No one really monitors these standards in the absence of clear legislation. However organics have been around for so long that in many markets in North America reliable retailers have emerged that can be trusted to take the organic label seriously. Such retailers purchase their products only from truly organic suppliers, and go to some trouble to review and police such suppliers.

There are many such retailers in Vancouver, but Capers and Choices particularly come to mind as the larger chains.

I agree that this is fertile ground for scammers of every description, and I would certainly not purchase organic products from a retailer I did not know to be reliable.

In short, as consumer, your best bet is to find a reliable retailer that will ensure the suppliers are really providing organic product. I think Capers particularly does a great job in this regard—although of course you will pay a little more for this.