Death

[lukeh]

Death is sad because you're not going to see that person ever again...or not for a long time if you believe you'll see them in an afterlife.

I look at Death as I've already been there. It was what I was doing before I came into existence. I just don't remember much about it one way or the other.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Dottore

...the Buddhist notion of "death awareness" taken to an extreme, but it eloquently makes the case for maintaining a clear and present awareness of ones own mortality as a precondition for living a truly full and complete life...

I posted that "...the older I get, the more conscious I become of the time I have remaining before I die, which is good because it reminds me to think about it before I waste it."

If I'm understanding, this is consistent with, or the same as, the Buddhist notion of "death awareness".

For a long time I've meant to learn more about Buddhism. Perhaps this will spur me on to do so.

I read years ago that "you can't step in the same river twice". Some time after that, I found myself standing on the bank of a river. So I removed my shoes and socks, stepped into the current and immediately thought to myself, you can't even step into the same river once!

Thanks for posting this thread.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Death holds no surprises for me.
When I die I will almost immediately start giving my atoms back to the universe for a myriad of purposes. My atoms will return to the cosmos from whence they came. I am part of everything. I am made from the same elements shared with the stars, planets, seas, atmosphere, earth, animals, and plants. In fact all living and non-living things. I am one with the Universe.

All will partake from my body. All will use my atoms for their purpose and needs. As I am connected to all, all is connected to me. I really am just a receptacle for these atoms to gather for a while.

Some will say that is a meaningless life or a life of no purpose; But what higher purpose for the physical essence of me than to be part of all and to support all?

My life's meaning is simple to me. I gather knowledge and wisdom and I disseminate knowledge and wisdom. I support others and I am supported by others. I take care of all I can in such a short time. All mankind is my family and my charge. Any abilities or power I have is used to help others. How could my life have more meaning?

Pain when dying is never pleasant, I suppose. But pain is not something you can really exclude from your life. So I accept it.
Dottore, your Father mastered his fate with great effort. That is a reflection of his understanding of life. I salute him.

I alone am master of my fate. I would not have it any other way.

So where do you live?

What if I am currently in need of your "atoms" now? You know, just because I can. And I am planning a trip to Normandy to see where those of my Grandfather's generation gave their "atoms," so maybe we could kill two birds with one stone?

"Kill" being a relative term, it would be nothing for you to give your life and possessions to me and mine?

I'm thinking Hitler would have loved to have subjugated you.... oh wait, we in the US ruined that for you.... so sorry.

And to be clear, no one has mastered their own fate. Simply because no one knows.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Great replies all. Thanks.

Dostoyevsky writes (I forget the book) about a bunch of Russian officers who are executed at 15 minute intervals, and how one of these is measuring the time he has left from the sound of the volleys outside his cell.

With 60 minutes remaining, he realizes he has to review everything in his life in that last hour. And it is an incredibly rich and full time for him. Then he hears a volley and realizes he's down to 45 minutes, and he begins again—and the 15 minutes until next volley are even richer and fuller and more intense.

And so it goes....

When the last volley sounds, and he realizes he has just 15 minutes left in his life, he is overwhelmed by the sheer intensity of his thoughts and emotions and goes into a kind of trance.

This passage is of course the Buddhist notion of "death awareness" taken to an extreme, but it eloquently makes the case for maintaining a clear and present awareness of ones own mortality as a precondition for living a truly full and complete life.

Anyway, it is interesting that many of you are thinking along the same lines...

So.......... you have no answers to deep questions.

I wish you well when you are ready to search.

[DARISC]

Please forgive me for posting this personal anecdote, but it just occurred to me and I feel it is pertinent to "death awareness'.

My mother lived to be two months short of her 95th birthday. Her last 2 1/2 years were spent living in an assisted living apartment, minutes away from me. I was constantly taxying her to and from dr.'s appt.s and urgent care in emergencies.

On one such return from the urgent care facility, traffic was heavy, Mom was talking my ear off, as always and, being stressed, I asked her, not very respectfully, to lighten up so I could concentrate on driving her home without getting in an accident.

I immediately felt deeply ashamed of myself and my mom instantly became silent. But she quickly broke her silence, very calmly saying, David, you should have more patience with me. I'm dying, you know.

I was absolutely crushed. Then she said, I want to stop at Walmart before you take me home. I need a few things. Mom, I said, you just got out of urgent care! I feel fine. It won't take me long and I need you to push the cart.

Two days later I joined her for dinner with her 'girls' in her assisted living facility's dining room. At 9:30 the next morning I received a phone call from one of her caregivers telling me that at 9:20 she had gone to my mom's apartment to administer her medication and that Mom had died in her sleep.

That was five years ago and as I type this...still, tears of sadness and joy.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

So where do live?

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

So.......... you have no answers to deep questions.

manbridge. Get fcuking lost, you creep.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by DARISC

manbridge. Get fcuking lost, you creep.

Fairly easy to call someone names when you got schmatz for answers, aint it.

You won't get the same from me. ALL have worth. I'm just going along with the script via this thread.

Oh, and I forgot to add the obligatory "bro from another mo."

[Oh Haha]

I don't fear death but I 'm not ready to go yet, either. After being with my Dad after we disconnected the ventilator as he had wished I found a new take on mortality.


Darisc-Sorry for your loss. I'm glad you were able to spend some more time with your mother before she passed.

[Rikao4]

along what D just wrote...
I have dinner with Mom every Thur.
I often seem to dread it..
I'm an a$$...
there will come a time when I wish I could have just one more dinner..
thank you Darsic..

Rika

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

So where do you live?

What if I am currently in need of your "atoms" now? You know, just because I can. And I am planning a trip to Normandy to see where those of my Grandfather's generation gave their "atoms," so maybe we could kill two birds with one stone?

"Kill" being a relative term, it would be nothing for you to give your life and possessions to me and mine?

I'm thinking Hitler would have loved to have subjugated you.... oh wait, we in the US ruined that for you.... so sorry.

And to be clear, no one has mastered their own fate. Simply because no one knows.

You have issues, I get it.

Where does it say I would allow your wimpy ass to take my life? Are you delusional?

But now for some facts.

As a US Citizen and Vet living most of the year in Europe, I understand the WW II battlefields far better than you will ever. I understand how multiple Allies directly caused the loss of France in 1941 (not that France did not have blame).

I understand that Russia caused 4 out of 5 German casualties during the War.

I understand how in the 10 largest battles in the European Theater, America was not a participant.

I understand the largest battles on the Western Front and the amount of casualties in them, were normal weekly levels on the Eastern Front from late 1942 onward.

In short, I know much of what is taught in grade school history is propaganda regardless of which country you attend school in.

So, bash away. I care not if ignorance is your chosen method to go through life.

Just because you don't know, please don't drag us down to your level.

[tabs]

RPK has a NEW friend...

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by DARISC

manbridge. Get fcuking lost, you creep.

With posts like that you might end up going to the island and waiting for him.
Just sayin .............

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

You have issues, I get it.

Where does it say I would allow your wimpy ass to take my life? Are you delusional?

But now for some facts.

As a US Citizen and Vet living most of the year in Europe, I understand the WW II battlefields far better than you will ever. I understand how multiple Allies directly caused the loss of France in 1941 (not that France did not have blame).

I understand that Russia caused 4 out of 5 German casualties during the War.

I understand how in the 10 largest battles in the European Theater, America was not a participant.

I understand the largest battles on the Western Front and the amount of casualties in them, were normal weekly levels on the Eastern Front from late 1942 onward.

In short, I know much of what is taught in grade school history is propaganda regardless of which country you attend school in.

So, bash away. I care not if ignorance is your chosen method to go through life.

Just because you don't know, please don't drag us down to your level.

Seriously? france gave up almost before the battles broke out and you want to blame that on their allies? typical froggy, it's always someone else's fault. BTW You forgot this part:

[tabs]

[/SIZE][QUOTE=Dottore;6229602understood the notion that fear of death really is just the result of being too attached to things in life[/QUOTE]



HEY Dottore"

WHAT THINGS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

You have issues, I get it.

Where does it say I would allow your wimpy ass to take my life? Are you delusional?

But now for some facts.

As a US Citizen and Vet living most of the year in Europe, I understand the WW II battlefields far better than you will ever. I understand how multiple Allies directly caused the loss of France in 1941 (not that France did not have blame).

I understand that Russia caused 4 out of 5 German casualties during the War.

I understand how in the 10 largest battles in the European Theater, America was not a participant.

I understand the largest battles on the Western Front and the amount of casualties in them, were normal weekly levels on the Eastern Front from late 1942 onward.

In short, I know much of what is taught in grade school history is propaganda regardless of which country you attend school in.

So, bash away. I care not if ignorance is your chosen method to go through life.

Just because you don't know, please don't drag us down to your level.

Honestly, mon ami, you fail to see the sarcasm in my post. I am 45 and little new to the ways of forums. Tone often fails one with the written word. And my profession is not a "writer." Your concerns are well stated. As a gentleman, I believe you will accept my forgiveness?

Listen, I just finished Norm Davies(I believe) "No Simple Victory." It echos many of your points about WWII participation. The US was NOT involved in the major victories. But no sane person would deny that the US helped break the back of the German war machine. But let us save this topic for another day.

I just find it strange that anyone could say with certainty that their life has a certain timeline and when it goes, that they could care less. And I know that you care about your life. Your post was just a bit "out there." I believe it is human nature to care about you and yours, and that is what I was trying to point out.

And ignorance? Like fear, ignorance is basically rooted in a lack of knowledge. As a car guy, you will know what I am talking about, perhaps?

EDIT: I see now that sarcasm is to be in green. Duly noted.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Seriously? france gave up almost before the battles broke out and you want to blame that on their allies?

That isn't even a little bit true, but spreading lies is your best talent.

Wars won by America alone in the 20th and 21st Centuries:

WW I, nope, not by a long shot.

WW II, No, thank the Russians.

Korea, No, stalemate at best.

Vietnam, No, clear loss.

Bay of Pigs, not even close to a win.

Gulf War I, no, had help.

Gulf War II, not really, won the first phase, lost everything else.

Afganistan, No, still trying. Very little progress.

On the bright side, we really showed Granada what we could do and don't forget we were able to beat up Panama!

[sammyg2]

Is that what they teach in your fantasyworld? I never knew that the russians defeated Japan in WWII. I had no idea! you got most of the rest of em wrong too, mr. make believe.
And how bout them vichy french? Surrended three times to two different countries in the same war?
At least they are consistant. Wanna talk about how the french rounded up Jews and sent them to the concentration camps for the germans to kill?
Yup, PROUD heritage there.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Honestly, mon ami, you fail to see the sarcasm in my post. I am 45 and little new to the ways of forums. Tone often fails one with the written word. And my profession is not a "writer." Your concerns are well stated. As a gentleman, I believe you will accept my forgiveness?

Listen, I just finished Norm Davies(I believe) "No Simple Victory." It echos many of your points about WWII participation. The US was NOT involved in the major victories. But no sane person would deny that the US helped break the back of the German war machine. But let us save this topic for another day.

I just find it strange that anyone could say with certainty that their life has a certain timeline and when it goes, that they could care less. And I know that you care about your life. Your post was just a bit "out there." I believe it is human nature to care about you and yours, and that is what I was trying to point out.

And ignorance? Like fear, ignorance is basically rooted in a lack of knowledge. As a car guy, you will know what I am talking about, perhaps?

EDIT: I see now that sarcasm is to be in green. Duly noted.

I will gladly accept your apology. I don't really see what in my post is "out there".

We, like all living things, live and die. Between birth and death is what you control. I bow to no man. Yes, that has caused me a few moments of pain. But I controlled whether I would or would not bow. I am the master of my own destiny. That does not mean I do not care about it.

I was not concerned before birth and I am not concerned with after death. There is no evidence to indicate I should be concerned, so why waste any of my short time "between the bookends"? I know I am more alike every other human than I am different, so I see myself as one of many. Not "gifted" with "special" knowledge or rights.

What defending your life or your loved ones lives has to do with this subject, is still not very clear.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Is that what they teach in your fantasyworld? I never knew that the russians defeated Japan in WWII. I had no idea! you got most of the rest of em wrong too, mr. make believe.
And how bout them vichy french? Surrended three times to two different countries in the same war?
At least they are consistant. Wanna talk about how the french rounded up Jews and sent them to the concentration camps for the germans to kill?
Yup, PROUD heritage there.

Your fantasies are legion. Now you have one about my anger. That probably is a wet dream for you.

News flash: all countries have faults and errors. All countries have engaged in shameful actions. The French have there fair share of them. I have never claimed otherwise.

But I don't have to lie, in order to boost my country's image. I like to see things in reality, warts and all.

You are the one touting America's greatness in everything and reject any of her weaknesses. How dogmatic and delusinal a POV is that?

[DARISC]

Dottore clearly expressed his wish that his thread, which is neither political nor religious, not be dragged into PARF, which is where posts such as yours below belong.

One of you two know this. The other is certifiable, will persist in making obnoxious posts and is just sly enough to avoid buzzwords that will get his ass booted off here.

The mouthy newbie obviously has no clue. Maybe now he knows where to post his crap

So why not start a thread on PARF and leave this thread, which has been clean and decent, continue?

Am I the only one posting here who feels this way?

Originally Posted by tabs

RPK has a NEW friend...

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Seriously? france gave up almost before the battles broke out and you want to blame that on their allies? typical froggy, it's always someone else's fault. BTW You forgot this part: