Death

[Tervuren]

I can only understand a gloomy funeral at a church if they thought the deceased had no hope. The last funeral I went to at my church there was laughter, singing, and games.

[GH85Carrera]

[Dantilla]

Death is tough.

Young or old, suddenly or over a long period of decline, death is never easy.

I lost a brother suddenly when he was 19.
I've lost other family members in their 90's after a long, prosperous life.

Both are equally tough.

We are sad upon death for:

-The things we wanted to do or say that we didn't,
-The things we did do that will never happen again.

Even if the deceased is in a "better place", we are left with an emptyness. It's okay to be sad....

[dentist90]

Well Dottore, those are some pretty heavy thoughts for 5am Thursday morning! (or maybe you're posting from Germany today?)
I have convinced myself not to fear death itself (we'll see how that holds up when the time comes!) I rationalize that I was not the least aware of anything prior to my birth and will most likely be just as unaware following my demise.
The angst of missing out on all the wonders of this life does give me pause. I cannot imagine not seeing my family anymore or the smell of fresh cut grass (even if it is on the green I just double bogeyed) or a sunset. But that is a conscious 'fear'. When I am no longer conscious I will not even be aware that I had children or sucked at golf. I should think the greater loss would be for the survivors of a lost one. They have to deal with the sorrow of loss, not the deceased.

"Anyman's death diminishes me, for I am involved in mankind"
~John Donne

My boys have asked if there really is a God and Heaven (they are 7 and 10). I answered them that many people believe so, but I can't say for sure. I did ask them to think about what it was like waiting to be born and if they were at all scared then. I could tell the gears were turning because they got really quiet in the back seat.

[Superman]

I'm just indescribably grateful that I am the undeserved recipient of a very rich and interesting life. Death and dying seem a bit scary, of course, but my gratefulness at having a life WAY overcomes that. Everyone dies. Not everyone truly lives.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The fact that death exists - ESPECIALLY if one believes that death is final and there is no afterlife, no extension of consciousness and nothing spiritual about us hairless apes whatsoever - makes life more valuable. Every day, every hour and every minute and second. If this is really all we have, then why do people waste time worrying about stupid minutia?

I ask myself this question a lot as I am introspective and a worrier by nature. I know that one of my flaws is that I get consumed by and occasionally worked up over things that are probably in the grand scheme of things not very important. Such is the downside of being a detail-oriented person, but I view at least asking the question "is this really important?" to be a very good one and one that I should ask myself more and more.

When viewed in that context, lots of things change. There is nothing more tragic than a wasted life if one life is all we get. To see people held down because of stupid things like greed, political interests, race, religion, etc. is downright tragic. The extent to which some people revolve their lives around the mindless pursuit of material things and money is all the more offensive and silly (I know - kind of ironic to be posting this on a Porsche forum, but that only underscores another fact - that we humans are irrational and occasionally flawed, prone to the occasional contradiction!)

Some things are really important in life - people, honesty to ourselves, our consciences and our morals. Living well but not so well as to be unreasonably greedy or at the expense of others. Being happy. Truly happy. To love and be loved. To look at the sunrise and sunset occasionally. To not be consumed by the ratrace. To thank whatever powers you believe in for how very lucky you are for health, youth, prosperity, whatever - even the most bad-off person has SOMETHING to be thankful for. Those sorts of things matter. Making a fat wallet fatter? Having a bigger house or a nicer car or a more lavish vacation? No. Those things don't. People do. Experiences do. Perspectives do. Stuff doesn't.

That said, I find poverty to be one of the most despicable problems facing mankind as it tends to rob and deprive people of their chance for a purposeful existence - one that might be the only shot they ever get. Yes, it is POSSIBLE to have a meaningful life and do something of note/purpose/consequence from a position of povery, but it's a hell of a lot easier if one is in a position of reasonable security, if not wealth. It is utterly inconceivable to me that in our world of plentiful resources that some people can be lazy, unmotivated and have no interest in procuring what they need to add enjoyment and spice/interest to their time here, just opting to throw their lives away being poor. It is equally unbelievable to me to think that others will shamelessly prey upon others "just because". Truly it disgusts me. I can only hope that karma or some sort of spiritual accountability exists for such people.

The older I get the more I realize how foolishly I've wasted a lot of my time and it galvanizes my resolve to do things more purposeful. I guess that's not an uncommon consequence of people coming to terms with their own mortality, but I see it as a positive thing and a good motivator.

I think we "live on" through how we affect those around us moreso than our souls or consciousnesses might. Indeed the behaviors we pass on to our kids become influences on their behaviors, which they pass on, and so on and so on. This means that we are somewhat "immortal" in terms of how we choose to behave and act and that is what we will leave behind, like it or not, for better or worse.

There are two types of people in this world - those who bring you up and elevate you and those who bring you down and waste your time. I truly aspire to be the former for those around me, and to spend my time, my energy and give my attention to only with people of that category - because eventually I will have no more time or energy to give.

Personally I believe there is something about us (and most living things) that persists after death and there is some documented evidence to support this, however not compelling enough to be overwhelming or to say definitively, "yes, we live on in such-and-such a way". So I hedge my bets and assume that this is it, try to live as best I can and in the way most consistent with my beliefs, morality and what I think is the way the God I believe in would want me to (and nobody knows what that is, as I don't share it).

[Seahawk]

Great thread Dot, but I have to get this off my chest, by evoking Carl Spackler:

A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking.

So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga.

So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

Sorry

Death is odd, in that we often see it as fair, as in the case of a 90 year-old dying in his sleep; and unfair, the good they die young.

We seem pleased with a long life, never mind that it is over.

I have, like most my age, a certain familiarity with mortality...among my close friends, I am the only one with a surviving parent, my Father. And we all have lost cherished Grandparents as well, in odd, happy and sad events.

Unlike many, I know the passing of young men and women, premature, the wick that would have burned bright now left below the collar, to remain cool to the touch.

What is now important to me, what has risen in my mind as the critical element of a life well led, is simple preparation for the inevitable. Let me explain.

My Dad has a living will, has prepared financially for a declining mind and a healthy heart, has thought about death in a practical, rational manner...his overriding concern (since I am his Executor we talked about the preparations) is to never be a burden, to not allow his demise to alter the lives of those he loves beyond our love for him and the fact that, like my Mother, I will think of him in the best manner every day. Miss him.

So, death. The Big D.

Wills are for the young and old, as are funerals: Prepare now.

What a preachy a$$ I am.

My wake will be a riot of lies and truths, false accusations and claims of sincerity. They'll have fun.

That is death to me, if I do it right.

[porsche4life]

I do not fear death, I fear dying slowly and painfully.

I do what I enjoy as much as possible. Much of what I do could be considering risky behavior, but I enjoy it, and if it shortens my life span so be it. I refuse to live a boring life, even if it means living a short life.


My theories on life and death can best be described with some quotes nabbed around here over the years...

"Life is short. Drive fast."

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, pizza in one hand, beer in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

[livi]

P-O-P, that was good reading!

[einreb]

Originally Posted by Dottore

I was reading a lot of Buddhist thought at the time, and thought I understood the notion that fear of death really is just the result of being too attached to things in life—and that if you weren’t at all attached to these things, death might indeed not be very frightening.

I assume you've read the 'Tibetan Book of the Dead'? Carl Jung's intro to that is fascinating (IMO).

[cel]

Re.: Life after death

Does a caterpillar know if it will become a butterfly?

[Cloggie]

I have no fear of dying....I am a Christian and have had times that have reinforced my belief that we are on a training ground for whatever is next.

My only fear is the process of dying, which I hope is quick and painless but I know I will get whatever the good Lord wants me to have.

...and yes, lets keep this out of PARF, I have my beliefs, others have theirs and let us leave each other in peace on that topic.

D.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Dottore

...I’d be interested to hear how you guys think about death, and generally deal with the subject. Do you talk to your kids about it? Are you afraid of it or not, and why

I thought about death when I heard about when I was a little kid. It was hard to ignore growing up because I was raised in a Christian family and went to Sunday school and church, where I was taught that Jesus died for my sins.

That really puzzled me at first, because I was only five years old and really hadn't done anything...yet. I remember seeing a lot of pictures of Jesus nailed to a cross and that was unnerving. By the time I graduated high school, my religious beliefs had become totally unorganized, I stopped going to church and don't remember thinking about death much after that. Except, of course, when someone died.

I remember approaching middle age and thinking, hmm... I'm half way through my life. Since then, the older I get, the more conscious I become of the time I have remaining before I die, which is good because it reminds me to think about it before I waste it.

As far as fearing death per se, I don't. I do hope that when the grim reaper comes, he just throws the switch and doesn't cause me pain and suffering first.

Is there an afterlife or will I be reincarnated? Hell, I dunno.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by Superman

Everyone dies. Not everyone truly lives.

Thank you - it is the in between where we have choices... those are what matter most.

And dottore - dinner with the Dalai Lama - how amazing. I have seen him speak here in Colorado - but it is rather removed. He seems to be a man of much joy.

[livi]

In fact, I have a cunning plan to outfox death and live on forever.

[Rikao4]

a plan..
careful..
believe it would be sad to see one's children pass...
your not getting over on anybody..
you stuck..

Rika

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by livi

In fact, I have a cunning plan to outfox death and live on forever.

So far so good!

[manbridge 74]

Hello Dot,

Some honest questions.

1) The dalai. Is he not a mortal?

2) Been to many a funeral. Funerals have a habit of separating folks from their belief system. IE the "christians" who never had faith generally are a pile of tears. The Christians who have faith are the ones celebrating. Does not their teaching claim that the reward in the afterlife is worth it?

3) And lest we forget, does not the dalai also have a faith? Otherwise he would not have been laughing? His laughter assumes a faith in what comes after death. I'm thinking those that were taken aback at said dinner were the enlightened ones.

4) Why would I give a damn about anyone if there was no afterlife? My dying father? Its survival of the fittest and if he or anyone else doesn't look so good, its their tough luck. (I'm the devil's advocate here)

5) Have you yet completely forsaken the way you were raised? But maybe the Hunter S. Thompson avatar answers this question? Hopefully you are not at his stage yet. One word....MEANINGLESS. And meaningless can never be meaning to anyone. Not to a dalai or a dog.

[RPKESQ]

Death holds no surprises for me.
When I die I will almost immediately start giving my atoms back to the universe for a myriad of purposes. My atoms will return to the cosmos from whence they came. I am part of everything. I am made from the same elements shared with the stars, planets, seas, atmosphere, earth, animals, and plants. In fact all living and non-living things. I am one with the Universe.

All will partake from my body. All will use my atoms for their purpose and needs. As I am connected to all, all is connected to me. I really am just a receptacle for these atoms to gather for a while.

Some will say that is a meaningless life or a life of no purpose; But what higher purpose for the physical essence of me than to be part of all and to support all?

My life's meaning is simple to me. I gather knowledge and wisdom and I disseminate knowledge and wisdom. I support others and I am supported by others. I take care of all I can in such a short time. All mankind is my family and my charge. Any abilities or power I have is used to help others. How could my life have more meaning?

Pain when dying is never pleasant, I suppose. But pain is not something you can really exclude from your life. So I accept it.
Dottore, your Father mastered his fate with great effort. That is a reflection of his understanding of life. I salute him.

I alone am master of my fate. I would not have it any other way.

[Dottore]

Great replies all. Thanks.

Dostoyevsky writes (I forget the book) about a bunch of Russian officers who are executed at 15 minute intervals, and how one of these is measuring the time he has left from the sound of the volleys outside his cell.

With 60 minutes remaining, he realizes he has to review everything in his life in that last hour. And it is an incredibly rich and full time for him. Then he hears a volley and realizes he's down to 45 minutes, and he begins again—and the 15 minutes until next volley are even richer and fuller and more intense.

And so it goes....

When the last volley sounds, and he realizes he has just 15 minutes left in his life, he is overwhelmed by the sheer intensity of his thoughts and emotions and goes into a kind of trance.

This passage is of course the Buddhist notion of "death awareness" taken to an extreme, but it eloquently makes the case for maintaining a clear and present awareness of ones own mortality as a precondition for living a truly full and complete life.

Anyway, it is interesting that many of you are thinking along the same lines...