2012 Jeep Wrangler vs older Cayenne
 

OK lets say hypothetically I know someone back in Missouri looking to buy an SUV.

This person is pretty dead set on a Jeep product, since previously they have owned a Jeep Liberty (2005) and really liked it and the warranty and service. They are currently looking at a new 2012 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4-door Unlimited. At first I said yea, whatever, the new Jeeps are pretty good and the warranty isn't bad and the new Pentastar motors are pretty nice... so why not.

Then I saw that this thing is like $30K. WTF.

You can get a 2006 Cayenne S for like 25K now. And the ride quality and build quality is on a whole different level. Wranglers ride like Wranglers. Thats not a bad thing if you into that, but I don't think this person is.

Their excuse is that it snows a lot in MO in the winter, and this person has some extreme terrain to traverse in the snow. Lots of hills & bad roads.

But it's snow. Not deep water & mud. As far as snow goes I cannot see a Cayenne (which has some of the best stability control in the world) be worse than a Jeep (which has solid axles front and rear still, if I am correct).

The other excuse is that the Porsche wouldn't have a warranty and the nearest Porsche dealer is 60 miles away. The new Jeep would have a warranty through a good reputable dealer that is 15 miles away.

This car is going to be drive 99% of the time in fair weather for a short commute 15 minutes a day. The ride and comfort of a Cayenne would be 10x better, IMO, than the Jeep. And no, I haven't driven the 2012 Wrangler, but I drive the last version and while I know the new one is better, I still cannot see how this could be a consideration.


So, if you were in this situation with 30K$ to blow, what would you do and why?

I'd go the Jeep. Close by service combined with warranty would seal the deal for me.

I say this as one who used to make 180 mile round trip drives to get a P-car worked on..often in two car convoy mode when the P-car had to be there more than a day.

This became a royal PITA.

As a Cayenne owner, he needs a Jeep. I don't mind walking out of the Porsche dealer with a repair bill north of 1k for most items. But I think that could be a bit of a shock coming from a Liberty where the biggest items are broken valve springs at $7 a spring.

Disclaimer: My wife drives a Rubicon!

I'd go with the Jeep.

First, Cayennes are really ugly, and when I see one, I try not to assume its just somebody who is image-conscience, but I wonder if they are just an image-conscience soccer mom.

Then there is the "Jeep wave"- Jeep drivers are always really friendly with one another, as they scoff at the high-dollar SUVs that never leave the pavement.

Parts, service and maintenance costs have already been mentioned.

The VW Toureg does not have any of the negative stereotypes as the Cayenne, and they look better.

Jeep vs. VW would be a closer decision, but I'd still go with the Jeep. Make mine a 2-door.

I,ve had a 911 off and on since 1972. I,ve had 5 different Wranglers since about 1992. Currently we have a 95 993 and a 4 door 2010 Jeep Rubicon. They have both been very reliable. We traded a 996 and a 2 door stripped 2009 Wrangler in on the loaded Rubi. I was initally hesitant to go 4 door as I used to desribe it to my wife as looking like a weiner wagon. My wife loves it compared to the 2 door I don,t mind it's length any longer.
I also think the Cayenne is ugly but others will say the same about the Jeep.
Our Jeep gets driven all the time ,the 993 only on nice days.
All our Jeeps have gone well over 200K without major work. A clutch in a Porsche can cost as much as an engine in a Jeep. The Wrangler also hold their value well .Lot's of market for a used one. The Cayenne will depreciate a lot more especially with high miles. My vote is for the Wrangler ,which is a truely capable offroad multi surface vehicle not a mall crawler like I think a Cayenne is.

How about a 2-3 year old Cherokee with extended warranty? That should be $25k or less and be a good in-between.

It would be nuts to buy a Cayenne unless you are willing to DIY or pay up.

George

I don't see the reason to buy a new Jeep since they all basically look the same, I'd buy the Jeep over the Cayenne but in reality I'd buy something completely different.[/QUOTE]

I,ve bought several 911's and they all looked the same.

The Wrangler is the real Jeep , other Jeep models are just pretenders.

I would buy a used Cayenne Turbo (which I did). A Cayenne is as much a step above other SUVs as a 911 is over the typical economy car.

Every time my wife sees a Cayenne, her first reaction is: "Gee, that's an ugly Touareg."

Just sayin'.

Jeep. Big time.

Apples to Oranges. It's a Jeep thing. People who consider Wranglers really don't consider anything else. A Wrangler is a Jeep. Everything else is just a SUV.

Jeep.

For Mike's hypothetical situation - Jeep all day long. Not even close - and I don't really like Jeeps.

Unless your hypothetical friend is a DIY enthusiast type, recommending an older used Cayenne means they're not going to talk to you within a year. They aren't known for being particularly reliable, they're very complicated, and much of the service/repair work will require a dealership or specialist independent shop. Remember, most of the population DOESN'T think wrenching on their car is fun. I have the same problem when asked to recommend cars, what I would get doesn't mean it's the best for my non-enthusiast family and friends.

So for me it's the Jeep, all day long. It's simple and reliable, the new V6 is a HUGE improvement, you can take it anywhere without worry but it won't beat you up daily, the top comes off (try that with the Cayenne), and they hold their value insanely well. Plus it will have a full warranty, Jeep dealerships are everywhere, and any shop will work on it. Get the new color matched hard top Rubicon, they look sweet. Given a few years worth of depreciation I'll be shopping for a Rubicon Unlimited with a 6-speed, a friend of mine has a 2011 model and I love it.

If you are going to beat the eff out of an off-road vehicle, then why not get a cheap one?

That's why people in Wyoming routinely buy a 2wd pickup, beat it to hell on trails and back roads and then leave it where it dies. Carry a full pack and hike out.

OTOH, if you want a multi-use vehicle, one that can be an off-roader or a bad-roader and then become a GT, you need the Cayenne.

I was under the impression tha the 2007+ cayennes had most of the problems fixed and have been very reliable vehicles. I am aware of the first gen ones having problems.

I asked what the dealer wanted for this new Jeep- it is a Sahara Unlimited. 33K$.

I found a 2008 Cayenne S in this person's area with 40K miles for $26K.

I don't understand why you wouldn't buy the Cayenne, a far more luxurious vehicle, for less money and take the 7K$ difference and put that into the bank for maintenance. If it breaks, it most likely won't cost 7K to fix. And there is the chance you could go 4 years without doing anything to it but changing the oil (as with my Boxster).

This isn't going to be this person's primary vehicle, either. It will be shared between husband and wife. And if it breaks and has to go into the shop they have... something like 4 other vehicles to drive, all relatively new as well, to get to work and such.


I don't know I thought it was a pretty easy decision. I have driven the v8 cayennes in all sorts of situations- off road, on track, la traffic, etc- and compared to every other SUV I have ever been in, they are better in nearly every way. And I have driven most every other SUV on the market (especially in the 40-60K new range)- its is part of my job.

Bingo! Sorry Schumi, but not everybody on the planet is a P-car loyalist. The above says it well.

Porsches are not as reliable as most mainstream vehicles, particularly a very complicated Cayenne. They have more scheduled maintenance and are very complicated, eventually when something goes wrong it will be expensive to fix. You also are stuck taking it to a specialist shop or dealership, which will be more expensive and more difficult to find.

I loved my Boxster and my 996s, all are great cars that have been very reliable. But would the average person want to pay $1500 for a 60k service at the dealership? A used Porsche for a non-enthusiast buyer is a mistake. You have to get away from your enthusiast DIY perspective and think like a normal person who takes their car in for $25 oil changes at Jiffy Lube and would scoff at any more intensive maintenance.

Bingo again! To the vast majority of this country's populace, a vehicle is just an appliance. One you buy to do the job you wish done as simply and with as little fuss as possible.

Funny, before I bought I was considering that the Toureg had a more appropriate, more truck-like body styling than the 955. But the 955 interior is better (cleaner) than the T-reg. Since I'm looking at the interior most of the time I chose the 955. --glad I did.

But, as you allude to, those "Jeep people" are very image conscious, and have to have a "Jeep." Whereas the Cayenne is more suited for people who aren't so hung-up on brand.. .and what other people think. I mean, sure, you'll say "it's a Porsche" but really, it seems that SUV people don't buy an SUV because "it's a Porsche," and Porsche people don't by SUV's --although, clearly, that is changing. ...I know that I didn't want to like it. ...and yet now I have one.

Anyway, I get how you say "Jeep vs. VW would be a closer decision," from a looks standpoint, but really, the Cayenne is so much better in every way. Well, once you get over the "WTF was Porsche thinking, building an SUV?" issue. Then, even the soft styling makes sense.

I wouldn't buy one but it sounds like you can pick up Cayennes very cheap right now. I was watching "The Car Show" the other night, there was a guy who bought a 2006 Cayenne Turbo for $134,000 new! They estimated it was worth from between $30,000-40,000 right now.

That's $100,000 depreciation in five years...! Ouch.

I bought a used 2000 Jeep Wrangler in 2007 to use at a house I have in Florida. I paid $6000 sold it last year for $6200. Although I only put on about 10000 mi in 3 yrs. That's pretty good depreciation.!!

Biased Reply
 

I bought a new 2007 Wrangler Unlimited in Sept 2006.

I know, don't buy the first year of a new model, it has a mini van engine, its like a rubbermaid tub on the inside, the 4x4 system is crude compared to the push button, leather seat, auto climate control features in other SUVs.

This is my 4th Jeep Wrangler and is arguably the best of the lot. 4 Doors, removable hard top w/the freedom top 3 piece feature. Just enough civility and space added to make it more practical than a two door but not so much that the rawness and character that makes a jeep wrangler is lost.

Take the whole top off, remove all 4 doors and you are in some sort of adventure rig like no other new vehicle available. A drive to the store is a safari and off road, this thing is a goat that keeps up with every thing else out there similarly equipped. We had a serious snowfall 3 years ago and for a little less than a week my jeep was the only vehicle on the road in our neighborhood - we ended up driving several of our neighbors to the store because they couldn't get off our hill in their higher priced, more luxurious SUVs.

Others have mentioned resale but just for fun I paid 26K for this vehicle new - KBB Private party sale lists value at $21,600. Draw your own conclusions but seems like a jeep is a good way with go with a minimal downside service wise and a high likelihood to retain more value percentage wise than anything else in its class.

No contest. All of those late model German high end models are stuffed with electronic systems and expensive components that need factory diagnostics to service. He'd better like 60 mile tow jobs and a $1,000 just for walking into the dealers' bay. Oh, you actually want your bargain Cayenne fixed? Start peeling $1K bills off your roll and stop when we feel like it.

I wouldn't own any of them out of warranty, whether we're talking Cayenne or 7-series or A-8 etc. There is a reason why high end, high complexity cars depreciate like rocks.

Get the new Jeep. Or some other new SUV - there are plenty of good ones other than Jeeps. Or a used SUV that can be fixed where he lives, by an independent guy if not by the owner himself.

The CRD version sells quite well here.

Now let's be honest here. The average new Cayenne buyer wants one so they can brag that they drive a Porsche. They don't buy for the performance or capability, they buy because it's a status symbol. That's the entire reason for the Cayenne and Panamera, it allows Porsche to cash in on rich people that don't want a small sports car but want to brag that they own a Porsche.

Just take a look around this enthusiast site. How many of the members here are the first owners of their cars? I think there was a poll on this some time back, I doubt if the number is larger than 10%.

Why can't Chrysler build an engine that doesn't break valve springs?

I completely disagree. (which, I rarely do w/ your posts). The Cayenne and Panamera stand on their own engineering/design/performance merits and have appeal to Existing Porsche owners. I expect that the majority of NEW Porsche buyers have, or have had, Porsches already.

I totally agree. Frankly the Cayenne and Panamera are both freaks of nature, they bend the laws of physics in ways that no big heavy sedans or SUVs should. For what they are, they are fantastic vehicles. My argument is that while both are very good vehicles, I would be willing to bet that their owners buy them more for that Porsche badge than the capability they provide.

The question is, does the Orange county MILF really care that her Cayenne can ford creeks, climb a 45% grade, and go 0-60 in 5 seconds? Or does she just like telling her friends that she drives a Porsh?

First, most every new $30k+ car is stuffed with electronic systems and expensive components that need factory diagnostics to service.

That said, to access all of that Porsche electronic system stuff, it's something like $200 for the Durametric software & cable designed specifically to plug into the Porsches.

There you go thinking like a DIY enthusiast type again. Remember that the average person doesn't know or care to know about diagnostic software, they just want their car fixed. Pep Boys doesn't have Porsche diagnostic software.

I thought that those people bought Ferrariis and Lambo's... ;)

Well, I can tell you my wife's POV - over the summer, with my driving the 911, she pretty much abandoned her S-class MBz and has stolen my Cayenne -and she drives it as such (stolen)... gas mileage tells that story. ...maybe she's doing track-days w/o telling me. ;) Anyway, the thing about the Cayenne is, it handles the crap roads, and sloppy weather of Seattle with ease and high comfort. It does as you say, seems to bend the laws of physics, and she is hooked.

BTW, do Jeeps STILL roll on a straight axle? ....that can't be good for ride comfort or performance.

Still with the straight axle, you simply can't get that suspension articulation off road with anything else. To their credit it rides fairly well, but you won't mistake it for a luxury car.

:confused: ...you say that like it's a good thing.

..are you saying that range of motion is increased because it's straight? ...Should HumVees ditch the independent, and go to straight (like WW2)?

Does Pep Boys have OnStar diagnostic software? ;)

I'm no off-road guru, but I believe that the biggest solid axle advantage is in extreme off-camber situations, like rock crawling. With one wheel up on a big rock the other wheel with a solid axle pivots downwards with more droop than an IRS, giving you much better contact with the ground for traction. Take a look at trucks built for rock crawling, they always have solid axles.

The original Hummer is incredibly capable off road, but it wasn't built with the Rubicon trail in mind either.

To me the biggest solid axle advantages are strength,and simplicity. That said the front solid axle in my wife,s Jeep Rubicon also drives very well over very bumpy roads (terrible potholes etc) with little or no strong kick back through the steering . Big camber changes with an IRS /IFS suspension will move the vehicle all over the road.
The new Wrangler also includes traction control and ABS so it isn't without some electronics onboard. The Jeep would still be my choice re the original use scenario decribed.
We have a 2010 Jeep Wrangler (4 dr Rubicon) and a 1995 993. I prefer the 2wd 993 not 4wd for sporty driving. Prefer the Jeep in poor weather. I,ve owned other sports cars and other SUVs

Read my sig.

I've had an Explorer and a Blazer -- neither of which gave me any trouble at all. But Jeeps have been very very good to me. I've had 5 of them. I like my #2 vehicle to be disposable, so I've gotten into the mode of buying the classic Cherokees for under $2K, using them for 12-18 months, selling them for $2.5K and buying another. The current one cost me $1700. Will be selling it soon...

Out of curiosity after reading this thread, I checked eBay and holy cow do those Jeeps hold their value! :eek:

That says more than anything about whether something is a good vehicle or a POS, in my book anyways. Being from snow country, I've never liked them because I grew up w/ CJs and we considered them the worst vehicle ever made. They are hands-down the worst thing to drive in snow, I'd prefer an old Ford LTD with bald tires. They're handy for driving around off-road, (think battlefield), but unbelievably horrible on the highway or in snow/ice. Tippy/spinny and just downright dangerous in either condition. Giving one to a teenager for a DD would mean that you really did not like that kid.

This shows you how up-to-date I am on Jeep products. ;) Apparently they have really improved the rigs for on-road performance and I have to admit that the new ones look cool and very tough/durable. The resale value plus the testimonials here prove that people really love them. My only other data point was a roommate back in the late '80s bought one of the first Wranglers and it broke a shock mount the first time that he went off-road in it. He claimed that he was not abusing it at all. I also heard that the Rubicon model was WAY tougher, though...is this correct?

The Cayenne is such a different animal. It will walk all over any jeep on pavement, (dry or otherwise), and that is where most SUV drivers spend ~100% of their time. With the exception of Jeep owners, apparently. :cool: