Scary thoughts....children with driver's licenses

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by aways

It's criminal to turn kids at 16 loose with a car. The average 16 yr-old has no concept of their own mortality, let alone the responsibility to care about anyone else's. We require an age of 21 to have a beer, but only 16 to wield a 2000+ piece of machinery capable of causing mass casualties. Crazy.

I know a 11 year old kit that so long as he was tall enough to see over the dash, is a FAR FAR better driver than most adults. Age isn't everything, a passion for driving will make a huge difference, and here in the USA, that passion is pretty rare.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You're lucky if you're hit by a kid in a car only weighing 2,000 pounds. I know you said 2,000+, but it's worth pointing out that more and more parents encourage their newly-minted drivers to get bigger and heavier vehicles for their own protection. This is not unexpected and it does make a certain amount of sense, but the unintended consequence is that it's touched off an "arms race" in recent years where everyone feels compelled to drive (or tell their kids to drive) the most obnoxiously large vehicle they can get their hands on. While it's good to want to protect your kids, and mass certainly helps with that, this logic runs afoul of common decency in that it deliberately "protects the kids" at the expense of everyone else. The goal becomes "be bigger/heavier than everyone else" which is another way of saying "be more likely to kill them than they are to kill you". So we've created the situation where we have our least experienced drivers rolling around in the most hazardous, highest-center-of-mass vehicles with the highest rollover potential, the greatest loss of control potential and the most likelihood to kill others due to size, weight and bumper height (right at head level of most "ordinary" cars).

Not sure what the solution here is, but it would be nice to see an emphasis on DEfensive rather than OFfensive strategy - choosing a car for your teen that's a bit smaller, better on gas, with good safety features, crumple zones, passenger cages, etc. is probably a bit more socially responsible than turning them loose in a 7,000# SUV.

Just something to think about.

[Por_sha911]

Now you understand that look in your parents eyes when you first got your license.
I was persona non gratis for almost two years when I refused to let my daughter get her learners until she was 17 and her full license until 18. Best decision I ever made. It was much easier sleeping knowing she was safe. She's 26, married, and someone else's problem now but she'll always be my baby girl.

[Joe Bob]

Looks like the ex gets the tank and the kids get the Ford Escape....

[Schrup]

Oh gawd, don't get me started, this did not go well for me with my daughter. I've told my wife & son that if he wants my Honda, he will be on the Honor Roll, no exceptions. He's only Eight, but it's already evident he has the ability academically, unlike his sister.

Insurance is one thing, I hope your not paying for gas. What does a Yukon get? I'm guessing about 12mpg. A bigger vehicle would have only met more collateral damage to my girl.

[aways]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

I know a 11 year old kit that so long as he was tall enough to see over the dash, is a FAR FAR better driver than most adults. Age isn't everything, a passion for driving will make a huge difference, and here in the USA, that passion is pretty rare.

I understand, that's why I said the average 16 year old....

[VINMAN]

After my son Tommy got his license. He wrecked 4 cars in 2 yrs. He was every ethnically/gender/stereotyped driver rolled into one. Never seen anyone so bad. I wanted to go and beat the hell out of his road test examiner for passing him.
Had my Insurance dropped because of him. One thing im glad was, that he never got into an accident because of speeding. Thats probably the one thing I always criticised him about was the fact that he drove like an old lady.
My other two, thank god, never had a problem with. My daughter got one seatbelt ticket.

[Seahawk]

This thread is amazing to me. Teaching your children how to drive, and drive well, is not that f'ing hard. You have to want to do it.

My Daughter was easy. She had the physical driving skills early, so we worked on anticipating trouble, spacing, weather effects, driving defensibly, looking five cars ahead, etc..

Since Arden can drive, so we worked on the mental aspects of being a good driver. We purposely sought out the most difficult roads with the most traffic and drove them over and over.

My Son was difficult. His driving skills we weak in the beginning. We found the roads less traveled and drove them a bunch. When he was ready, we repeated the syllabus I worked with Arden.

Teaching kids how to drive requires time and effort. I told them both that they get to drive my cars when they pass my test, not the DMVs.

YMEV.

[porsche4life]

Yup I was turned loose with our entire fleet at 16. My primary ride was the 944, but I took the big pickups out some too. I've yet to destroy anything. Of course I started driving cars at about 12, and hit the road on my motorcycle at 14. I think every kid should do that. Riding a bike forces you to be aware of your surroundings. No cage to save your ass.

[DonDavis]

This is a very touchy subject and can lead to heated arguments when voicing one's opinion.

Here's mine...
The single most important safety feature in any car is the driver's brain. Regardless of age. Airbags, ABS, crumple zones, blah blah can all give a false sense of "if I do have a collision, I won't get hurt". If you want to turn off your kids hearing when talking about the dangers of driving, tell them kids are bad drivers. They'll hear "only kids suck at driving, adults are very good at driving". Truth is, adults are better at multi tasking behind the wheel. Older drivers never had a cell phone, 6 CD changer, GPS, Starbuck's latte, etc... to take care of. New drivers have a hard time just keeping the car ON THE ROAD, much less checking mirrors and keeping aware of changing traffic patterns.
Their early driving environment is filled with other kids just as unaware. My daughter was cautious, slow and patient yet her first car was hit 5x in the first 18-24 months of driving and none were her fault. I never heard about the one's that were but I'm sure she bumped a thing or two.

I say no cell phone, AT ALL for the first year. I know, there will be many objections and justifications to this but regret is far more expensive. Ask any parent that has lost a kid to cell phone/texting/driving. I had that argument and won, my girl was 17 before she got her first cell. My son will be the same, I guaranty that.

Take your kid to a parking lot and drive with them, often. BEFORE they get a license. And don't tell me "the law says blah blah". Just do it.

Stay aware of their skills. Have them drive you around when they are legal. Keep your comments to a minimum while they are driving. Debrief the drive and have some laughs.

Driving is fun, right?

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

This thread is amazing to me. Teaching your children how to drive, and drive well, is not that f'ing hard. You have to want to do it.

My Daughter was easy. She had the physical driving skills early, so we worked on anticipating trouble, spacing, weather effects, driving defensibly, looking five cars ahead, etc..

Since Arden can drive, so we worked on the mental aspects of being a good driver. We purposely sought out the most difficult roads with the most traffic and drove them over and over.

My Son was difficult. His driving skills we weak in the beginning. We found the roads less traveled and drove them a bunch. When he was ready, we repeated the syllabus I worked with Arden.

Teaching kids how to drive requires time and effort. I told them both that they get to drive my cars when they pass my test, not the DMVs.

YMEV.

Excellent, Paul!

[dagriff]

Two words "Drivers Ed".
However..... get recommendations. Some Schools just drive round and round the local test route. Their only goal is to get the kid through the test.
Out of the standard 10 hour course I do, only the last 1.5 is directed at the test.
We do gravel roads, downtown, 4 lane highways, country roads etc etc.
Plus (being Canada) a lot of stuff directed towards staying alive in the winter, including what to do (and what not to do) if you find yourself going in the ditch. I actually make them drive into a ditch.
They can get a learners here in Alberta at 14. There are not many kids mature enough at that age, some (mostly girls) but very few. At 16 they can take their test.
Without going through my records, at a rough guess I would say 80% can be made good, safe average drivers. 10% very good. 5% natural drivers with a good "Feel" for the car. 4% will never be good, at best they can be made safe. 1% are just plain dangerous and always will be. In fact by law, I have to report to the transport monitoring board any that are potentially threats to other road users.

[Instrument 41]

4 boys. 21, 18, 16 and 14. 21 and 18 yr old paid for theri own insurance. No insurance money no drive. I also made it mandatory that they do at least 3 autocross's per year. One-it helps them understand car control, what not to do, and what happens when you don't pay attention to your car. Two-For my 16 yr old, it gives him an outlet to "tear it up" on the course instead of the streets. So far it has worked. The 14 yr old-he drives now with us in the country. All 4 were driving the tractor, 4 wheeler, go carts, etc...from about 7 yrs old. So far no accidents.......Insurance is expensive, but when you need it its the cheapest thing you can buy.

[patssle]

Giving any male teenager a vehicle with more than 150 hp should be a crime against parenting.

[aways]

It's not mainly about driving skill, driver's Ed, or "education", it's about maturity and judgement that most 16 year old's just don't (can't) have at that age.

[Jrboulder]

Originally Posted by patssle

Giving any male teenager a vehicle with more than 150 hp should be a crime against parenting.

False. I had a car with 210 hp for my first year driving. I drove like an old lady.

3 weeks after buying a 944 with 143 hp I got a speeding ticket. I got it dropped in traffic court.

Jackson

[Rufblackbird]

Had my license since I was 15 years old (law at the time in Hawaii). Have not destroyed any cars yet (knock on wood), and did not take driver's ed. Had a minor fender bender or two in college but nothing that couldn't be fixed easily. Of course, for the first 3 years I was the family chauffeur in the minivan, dropping mom off at work, siblings at school, then going to school myself.

It all depends on the kid...

[vash]

my older sister destroyed cars. from the top of my head, i can recall 5. thank goodness she was never hurt. but that girl was a menace. i wouldnt ride with her. i would rather pedal across town or kick my skateboard. and i lived in the desert!!

when my turn came along, my mom dusted off an old 1971 camaro and handed me the keys. i think she became religious that very moment. she must have thought it would be the last time she saw her middle child. turns out i was a decent driver. i am mid 40's...my list of daily driver cars are:
camaro, jeep, truck..(four months with a MS3)current truck. i wrecked NONE of them.

[Rick Lee]

Start them out on motorcycles. There's no multitasking possible, they'll become instantly aware of their own mortality and the general absentmindedness out there, they're cheap, get great mileage and they'll not want to be on the road in inclement weather.