Floggin' an old Ironhead Sportster - Page 2

Jeff Higgins · 10-27-2011, 12:44 PM

Kenny Dreer got muscled out by a group of Brits that still owned the Norton trademark. He was down in the Portland area (he used to hang out and display his bike at every Portland International Raceway event - nice guy), then moved down to the southeast somewhere with big hopes of beginning production of his new, updated Commando. Trademark owners quashed that dream. He is, however, consulting with the new owner on what will be the new production Commando, so there can't be much bad blood. I don't think he could have rounded up the backing to get off the ground anyway. The new owner, who purchased the trademark rights from the original holders, apparently can. There was a new bike displayed in Seattle last winter, with promises of production to follow very shortly. It was going to be priced in the mid $20k range, which all of us felt was way, way out of its market range. It needs to compete with the Sportster and Bonneville, not the Ducati 1198. It's been at least a year, and not a peep since. We'll see.

In my circle of riding buddies in the late '70's and early '80's, several had Commandos. I always lusted after one, and kind of "traded" back and forth (for a week or two) with a buddy who had a John Player Special. I would dearly love to find one today but, alas, my long-suffering wife would have me cull the herd to "make room" (I happen to think there is "room" right now...). I actually almost bought a really clean example a couple of years ago. Someday...

enzo1 · 10-27-2011, 02:21 PM

I had a 73. The PO had spent a bunch of cash having Barnett's Harley Davidson rebuild it. Floated the valves once, only problem I had with it. She was a fast muther for her time. Kick Only with high compression made for a lot of laughs and sometimes pain. Black and chrome....

Dottore · 10-27-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Kenny Dreer got muscled out by a group of Brits that still owned the Norton trademark. He was down in the Portland area (he used to hang out and display his bike at every Portland International Raceway event - nice guy), then moved down to the southeast somewhere with big hopes of beginning production of his new, updated Commando. Trademark owners quashed that dream. He is, however, consulting with the new owner on what will be the new production Commando, so there can't be much bad blood. I don't think he could have rounded up the backing to get off the ground anyway. The new owner, who purchased the trademark rights from the original holders, apparently can. There was a new bike displayed in Seattle last winter, with promises of production to follow very shortly. It was going to be priced in the mid $20k range, which all of us felt was way, way out of its market range. It needs to compete with the Sportster and Bonneville, not the Ducati 1198. It's been at least a year, and not a peep since. We'll see.

In my circle of riding buddies in the late '70's and early '80's, several had Commandos. I always lusted after one, and kind of "traded" back and forth (for a week or two) with a buddy who had a John Player Special. I would dearly love to find one today but, alas, my long-suffering wife would have me cull the herd to "make room" (I happen to think there is "room" right now...). I actually almost bought a really clean example a couple of years ago. Someday...

Jeff: Interesting. I was thinking more of the days (early and mid 1990's) when he was taking old Norton Commandos and upgrading them with wonderful bespoke parts, better electrics, reworked engine, and suspension and brakes etc etc., and selling these to collectors. These were the most perfect Norton Commandos ever....If I found one of those bikes today, I would be all over it like a rash...

Jeff Higgins · 10-27-2011, 06:43 PM

My first Sportster was a '76 XLCH, kick start only. I rode it to school for a whole year. In the winter, it was not uncommon to start kicking it with all my gear on (so I could warm up a bit before hitting the road) only to have all that gear spread out across the front yard after ten or fifteen minutes of kicking the shyte out of that recalcitrant sonofabeach. I would be there in the driveway in my tee shirt, literally steaming in the early morning, cussing that damn thing and close to missing my first class. I would usually go in and have a quick cup of coffee, then head back out and try again. The little smart ass bytch would usually fire on the first kick. Go figure.

Jeff Higgins · 10-27-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

Jeff: Interesting. I was thinking more of the days (early and mid 1990's) when he was taking old Norton Commandos and upgrading them with wonderful bespoke parts, better electrics, reworked engine, and suspension and brakes etc etc., and selling these to collectors. These were the most perfect Norton Commandos ever....If I found one of those bikes today, I would be all over it like a rash...

He actually ran out of candidates for such restoration. By the time he did, he was having so many original parts re-popped (both truly original, and the bespoke ones you mention, with many improvements) that he figured what the hell - let's make the whole thing. He was making everything by then, and was operating under the moniker of Vintage Restorations, so there was no trouble with the guys that owned the trademark. It was only when he started redesigning it (he unitized the motor, primary, and tranny) and hoping to sell it as the new "Norton" that he ran into trouble. Up until then, just restoring and providing parts, he was fine. He was definitely "on the radar" with the Brits who were just sitting on the rights, but they really didn't care as long as he was just "fixing up" the old ones. They only perked up when he started making noise about a "new Norton". Anyway, I hope it works out. I would love to see a new Norton.

enzo1 · 10-27-2011, 07:00 PM

On mine it had a pattern ,key off... choke on kick once, turn off choke kick again then turn key on and she would start. we would get a new guy usually big "I can do it" type guy and bet he couldn't start it. Couple of guys were uh, well thrown over the handle bars specially if they half assed it .... lots of fun she was known as the "BLACK *****".....

Dottore · 10-27-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

He actually ran out of candidates for such restoration. By the time he did, he was having so many original parts re-popped (both truly original, and the bespoke ones you mention, with many improvements) that he figured what the hell - let's make the whole thing. He was making everything by then, and was operating under the moniker of Vintage Restorations, so there was no trouble with the guys that owned the trademark. It was only when he started redesigning it (he unitized the motor, primary, and tranny) and hoping to sell it as the new "Norton" that he ran into trouble. Up until then, just restoring and providing parts, he was fine. He was definitely "on the radar" with the Brits who were just sitting on the rights, but they really didn't care as long as he was just "fixing up" the old ones. They only perked up when he started making noise about a "new Norton". Anyway, I hope it works out. I would love to see a new Norton.

Thanks for that. Very interesting. And please PM me if you ever see one of those Kenny Dreer Nortons on the market!

Jeff Higgins · 10-27-2011, 07:35 PM

Boy, I would just about give my first born male child for one. Actually, no question. I've seen both his restorations and the new production bike. They are all to die for. Like I said, I'm hoping...

There was a Canadian who had moved down here and taken up residence in Snohomish about a decade back, who was rumored to be quite the Norton man. Rumors proved true the day one of the members in my old HOG chapter showed up with one that he had purchased from this guy. It was simply beautiful; all original and restored to new. Dark green with gold metalflake trim. I made him swear if he ever wanted to part with it that I would be first in line.

Well, a couple of years passed, and I ran away screaming from that whole blasted HOG thing (a story for another time). I guess his health began to fail rapidly, to the point where he had no business on a bike anymore, so his wife sold all of his bikes. I only heard of that a couple of years ago, after he ultimately passed away. The Norton was long gone by then.

I wish I knew more. The trail to the barn full of restored and in-work Nortons in Snohomish has gone cold.

varmint · 10-27-2011, 08:59 PM

have owned three harley products over the years. the 70 sportster is the only one i look back at fondly.

LakeCleElum · 09:13 PM

Jeff: It was '95 or '96 when a few of us were given a personal tour to Dreer's shop in Gladstone, OR....At that time, he owned the rights world wide, just couldn't get the financing to keep it going...He was winding down his days of "make a new Commando from an old one" and starting to produce the twin from the gound up. I vividly recall sitting in his office and looking at the soft board: It read something like this: crank=fallon, rods=carillo, heads=Jerry Branch, etc. you get the idea...

In his shop: A few of the new bike, a few of the "Rotary Nortons from the mid '70's that really never sold. Was very interesting. At the time I had 2 850 Commando's. One like new and one in need of restoring. Since he was buying old one's to re-produce, I let him know what I had and he said he's call......Next I heard, he'd gone under....Very sad, a nice guy.

Speaking of John Player Nortons? If you recall the 6 hr hour road race at the old SIR? I still have the programs: In 1978, I was co-rider of a buddies JPL....He crashed early in Turn 1 at wide open and pegged throttle, I drove him to the Hosp and sat on the floor all day so the ambulance could stay at the track and the race continue....In 1979, I co-rode a brand new 1979 Suzook GS1000E...........Happy Times............The Norton made my Nutz tingle too!

Dottore · 10-28-2011, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

.Happy Times............The Norton made my Nutz tingle too!

Oh yeah. Used to make my girlfriend's whatsit tingle as well. Second gear in particular for some reason.

oldE · 10-28-2011, 05:50 AM

Jeff,

I watched the video.
Very cool piece of gear, but as it was revving, all I could think of was:

OMG Man!

I guess I'm not a Sportster kind a guy.

Best
Les

Joeaksa · 10-28-2011, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

Oh yeah. Used to make my girlfriend's whatsit tingle as well. Second gear in particular for some reason.

Friend of mine had one of the R100RS BMW's back in the 1980's. He loved the bike and his model girlfriend rode it every where.

One week he took it by Iron Horse in Tucson for some maintenance and returned several days later to pick it up. Loved the changes and one of them included new much lighter wristpins in the rods and pistons. Really cut down on the vibration and made it nicer to ride.

Took the ladyfriend for a ride and she had a "come to Jesus" talk with him at the first rest stop. "Either you make the engine like it was, or I stop riding with you!" Seems that the way the old wristpins vibrated in the engine put a smile on her face and the update was not to her liking...

motion · 10-28-2011, 06:35 AM

Ha! Why do you think single guys ride twins and married guys ride Wings?

Joeaksa · 10-28-2011, 06:47 AM

Free (and extended) foreplay!

Jeff Higgins · 10-28-2011, 06:50 AM

Wow Bob, I guess it's really been that long ago that Dreer was showing his bikes around. Seems like yesterday. He used to bring one to the ALMS races when they were still held at PIR, as well as the CART races, the Rose Cup, and the Historics. I remember Cycle World was raffling one off for a year or so; they brought one to the Seattle bike show that year. I bought a lot of tickets...

Yeah, Les, these things do shake. They are truly their own worst enemy. Everything has to be loctited, nylocked, safety wired, or zip tied. Sometimes all four. And then, even if you can manage to keep it on the bike, it will likely fail at some point from the beating it takes. Especially if ridden hard, with the revs kept up. It's really not so bad just cruising, if the revs are kept under 3,000 or so. But jeezus does it shake when you rev it up.

You can see in the video where it smooths out noticably after an upshift, and then gets worse and worse as revs climb. I was shifting at about 6,000 to 6,500 revs. I actually thought I had more footage than that, as I didn't turn the camera off for about another ten minutes. Seems it gave up on its own - didn't take long. I'm not sure how much of that my poor little Contour HD will take. Hell, I'm not so sure how much of that I can take anymore myself. I'm not as tough as I (used to think) I was...

LakeCleElum · 10-28-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow Bob, I guess it's really been that long ago that Dreer was showing his bikes around. Seems like yesterday. He used to bring one to the ALMS races when they were still held at PIR, as well as the CART races, the Rose Cup, and the Historics. .

Jeff - I had my dates wrong on the Dreer Visit....Looked thru some of my records this morn and it was August, 03 when I was there. Sorry.

Jeff Higgins · 10-28-2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Jeff - I had my dates wrong on the Dreer Visit....Looked thru some of my records this morn and it was August, 03 when I was there. Sorry.

Yeah, I remember taking Chris and Alex to the ALMS and CART races when they were younger, and seeing Dreer's bike on those trips. So, the '03 time frame sounds about right. Regardless, they were beautiful machines. All of the little bits, the details were so well done. Shoulda bought one then, when I had the chance. I don't remember that he was really "selling" them per se, though - it always seemed like he was showing us what he was "going to be" selling. I'm not sure how many guys were lucky enough to actually get one, or how many are really out there.

Dottore · 10-28-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yeah, I remember taking Chris and Alex to the ALMS and CART races when they were younger, and seeing Dreer's bike on those trips. So, the '03 time frame sounds about right. Regardless, they were beautiful machines. All of the little bits, the details were so well done. Shoulda bought one then, when I had the chance. I don't remember that he was really "selling" them per se, though - it always seemed like he was showing us what he was "going to be" selling. I'm not sure how many guys were lucky enough to actually get one, or how many are really out there.

He was building and selling them. In fact he had sent me a whole sales package with photos of the various builds (also Triumphs etc), price lists etc.

I then called him and spoke to him about a project, but he wanted a donor bike and I didn't have one. I was in Asia at the time, but eventually chanced upon a derelict Commando in Singapore which I wanted to ship to Kenny. This must have been in the late 1990's. When I finally got hold of him he told me he wasn't building custom bikes any more, but was involved in a larger venture. I guess this was the "new" Norton.

I lost track of him after that.

Jeff Higgins · 10-28-2011, 10:16 AM

I picked up one of those brochures on one of my trips to PIR where he displayed one of his bikes. I might even still have it, somewhere...

Your experience pretty much matches the impression I had, in that he would build a guy a bike, so long as the guy had a bike he could start with. I'm not sure he ever built one that wasn't already spoken for, or that he had any kind of "inventory" of finished bikes even if they were just on paper waiting to be built. I think maybe in the beginning he was buying bikes, fixing them up, and selling them. By the time I had heard of him, however, I'm pretty sure the customer had to come with his own bike.