I need a car...and it must have these:
 

at least 500hp or more
4 doors
manual
under $70k
not a Porsche

This just doesn't seem like that hard of a list does it...here is what I will likely get back:

CTS-V - sedan or wagon (this is very high on the list) though something is telling me not to pull the trigger - not sure what it is....maybe two letters GM. (likely go with wagon, 3 kids etc)

This is actually the only car out there meeting the above criteria - which I find hard to believe.

Others considered: The usual bag of tricks...M3 used (sedan), c63, Jeep SRT8, S4, older RS4...

What am I missing. Not look for an older car to mod this is a daily driver.

Nothing is grabbing me - wtf is the (my) problem?

500hp and <$70k and 4 doors all together are actually not going to be that easy. 500hp is not to be laughed at. Because we are in a power war sort of like in the 60s, power levels are going up every year. A few years back 500 was a bunch of power reserved for only very few cars. There are probably some AMG Mercedes that would have your 500hp beat, but even then, most of them are going to be the 6x series which, I think, is usually the 12 cyl cars which means >$70k.

Your requirement for the car to be <$70k probably make a GM or Ford or Dodge the perfect option. You want a lot for cheap. BMW, Merc and Porsche aren't known for being cheap. Heck, to even get a 4dr Porsche with >500hp, you'd have to buy the turbo version of the Panamera which is the most expensive option.

Have you REALLY thought about the specs that you've made requirements? I'm not sure you have.

Actually I disagree.

Not many cars have 500+ HP.
Not many cars have a manual transmission.
Certainly not a lot of cars with the above criteria cost less than $70K.
And not many of them have 4 doors.

I don't think the list is very long. You've already listed the main protagonists: M-series BMW, AMG-series MB, RS-series Audi, the odd Hemi-powered Chrysler, V-series Caddy. Maybe a Maserati Quattroporte.

All good points -

Here is the counter: Cars today are bloated with so much garbage, to even be considered a performance variant they need that much hp to get their fat asses off the couch and down the road.

Had e39 M5...great car but fat and oh so delicate...clutch, clutch, clutch 400hp. got rid of that in favor of

06 Jeep SRT8 - yep believe it or not a very fun ride, raw, light (for an SUV) handled great etc...forced to unload that - long story.

Enter today - back with funding now looking for that same raw deal. The new Jeep us weak sauce by all accounts and super fat now. Not much in the power increase either...so pretty mundane. Enter the caddy line up.

Yes I know what I am asking for and I want 500hp plus - again - at least.

All of the cars mentioned are like 5-6k lb behemoths - you need that hp for any type of fun.

Maybe a true paddle shifter would be the ticket - via the c-63? Dear Audi please bring over the RS4 Avant...cash in hand....I would stretch the 70k for this one.

cadillac.

i would run to the caddy store if i had that criteria list.

CTS-V Wagon hands down, not even a decision.

That's neither here nor there. There still aren't that many cars with over 500 hp. The list is pretty small. When you start adding your other requirements, the list dwindles down to next to nothing.

You've probably heard the saying:

cheap, reliable, fast, pick two

Well, you're trying to pick all three plus adding a bunch of other stuff.

Used AMG E-class? I believe several model years are right around 500 HP.

How about 550 ft-lbs of torque?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1323992951.jpg

Is anyone going to point out that it's ludicrous to claim one "need's" 500+ horsepower for a daily driver?

If you can afford it, more power to you. But really, come on. 350 horses in a mid-size sedan isn't enough. I have 225 and it cruises at 90mph like its nothing.

Yeah, well I NEED 600 hp! . . .no wait 700 . .no ...


Yeah, it's ludicrous.

07-and later M5...low mileage (Under 20K) can be found in the mid $40K range...$70K gets you an almost new one).

Hard to fault the CTS-V and AMG models, as well as the Maserati (4 door Ferrari). You're overlooking two really great cars though - Jaguar XFR & XJR. Both are stunning inside and out, many reviews preferred the XFR to the M5. I loved my XJR, it's one of the few cars I really miss.

Is the Overfinch Range Rover available in a manual?

He said that it must have a manual trans which rules out every car on your list, I think. But he also listed a used M3 as a possibility, which only has around 400 HP.

I don't understand the HP requirement at all. I could see a performance requirement, such as sub 5-second 0-60, over 170 mph top speed, a certain 'ring time, etc. But just 500 HP? Who gives a schit? That has nothing to do with performance by itself. And it really has nothing to do with driving fun. I drive AMG Mercedes all the time, (including today), w/ way over 500hp and they're really not that fun. To each their own, I guess... :cool:

Oops, missed that. I think the Maserati is available with a manual in the GTS version.

EDIT: Nevermind, the GTS is sportier but still has the flappy paddle gearbox.

I'm almost in the same boat for next year so here is what I came up with, ok, some don't have the exact requirements you are asking, but somewhere you will have to compromise.

Cadillac- it has all, but the interior is too cheesy for me. with wheels they look much better, I think this will be your only choice. :(

BMW M5- the gas mileage is crazy but still a choice.

Benz C63 AMG- gas mileage is bad also, plus there's a major lawsuit against AMG for premature engine components wear.

BMW 535I- is twin turbo but don't have near 500hp. the new ones does at 85K I think.

BMW 750LI- a very strong contender for me with wheels they look awesome, lack the big power but has the comfort.

Lexus 460- same as the bmw 750LI

Benz CLS 550 AMG- the 6 speed transmission failures and the trouble with the air suspension is something I don't want to deal with it.

Jaguar XF Supercharger or XFR- This will be one of my finalists along with the 750LI.

Now if you find something better please let me know :D

None of these cars new are worth a fraction of their price and the depreciation proves it. If you have the kind of income or wealth where that just doesn't matter, go for it. I know a guy who walked into the local BMW dealer a few months ago and dropped ~$250k on two new cars: an X6 M for himself, (I know...), and the new 7-series hybrid for the wife. He probably didn't even ask for a discount. I would imagine the sales managers are still blowing each other over that one.

Unless that's your situation, I can't imagine why anyone who's a real car person would even look at any of these extremely over-priced and expensive new cars that for the most part are ugly and not fun. But that's just me.

If you don't fit that criteria, I'd like to think you aren't looking at $70k cars PERIOD. I'd have to have one hell of a lot of money to drop that sort of coin on a car, especially considering that 6-8 years later you can get it for 25% of the new price.

I'm with you on the earlier comment about the HP though, frankly it's just for the sake of bragging rights. My XJR with a "mere" 370 HP was traction limited at low speeds and giggle inducing fast at higher speeds, I can't imagine actually needing more.......though I wouldn't turn down the chance to try.:)

My big problem w/ most of the cars mentioned is the lack of fun/dollar ratio. Especially if bought new. When I walk into the BMW dealer these days, I cannot believe the prices. 3-series for $70k. 5s for $80k+ and 7s for way over $100. I'm a cheap bastard and a used car guy.

I'd rather have the depreciated 100k car for $40k than any new $40k car, for instance. The only new cars that ever tempt me are 911s. Then all logic goes out the window regarding price.

My SC is probably around 2,500lbs and had 204hp stock. So if you double the weight to 5,000lbs you would need 408hp to have the same ratio. I was going to say you're estimating more hp than you need, but after crunching the numbers maybe not. Of course the next question is does your DD need the same weight/power ratio of a sports car? Well, that's your choice. But as has been pointed out, that's hard to find for the money you want to spend. Good luck.

Yep. Except I'm more of a "I'd rather have the depreciated 40k car for 10k" guy.

I had an $80k car depreciated down to $10k a couple years ago and a $90k car down to $8k outside right now.

For $70K, I would consider a $110K certified preowned uber-sedan that was a year or two old with 5-20K miles.

Also, consider modifying an otherwise-perfect car to meet your power criteria

I just picked up a '07 550i w/ the sport package. 30,000 miles, still under warranty......$32,000!!!
360 hp and it can hardly put that power to the pavement without traction control comming on.

Ever consider an old domestic station wagon, then hotrod the hell out of it? 500 horsepower isn't hard to get, it's putting it to the ground that is difficult.

Go to autotrader.com

Put in price range $50K-$70K.

Click the manual transmission box.

See what pops up

+1

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324092446.jpg

If it was me, I'd go for the Panamera all day.

Unfortunately, a NEW Panamera Turbo (over 500hp, remember) is WAY over $70K.... like double. Or more.

But used ones are out there. Stick shift? Not so much

Oh, and a new CTS-V 6 speed will absolutley annihilate a Panamera Turbo

OK, how about a used one, then?

That's the problem. With the four listed criteria, the OP notes the list he came up with is pretty short. Well, yeah, that's because the list is pretty short.

What are you driving!? Are you about to say you have an S600 but its from like 1998? If so then I won't be surprised.

2004.5 Dodge 3500 4 door long bed Phat butt.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324136414.jpg


Over 500hp, 4 doors, under 70k. Ding mark it off as done and do it.






I know its not what your looking for, but this sucker can move.
500hp

Under 40k when I did it all

6 speed, Diesel

20mpg on the freeway

14 when hooked to the trailer.

Can spank most cars from light to light at 7200lb.

My wife calls it the one ton mini van.

Add a turbo, some injectors, fueling box of your choice and a few other little odds and ends and 500 is easy these days.

heck for 70k I bet I could get you a white one and a black one.

Yes, Ron that's exactly what he NEEDS

+2

Taking delivery on one today. 6 speed wagon.

An S600 would have been a lot more than $90k new. I have a '96 S500 outside w/ 70k miles that is worth maybe $8-10k in mint cond.

I think people are clueless about what Mercedes (and BMW and Porsche) cost new nowadays.....

A NEW S600 starts over $160K

A new S65 (AMG version of the S600) is typically around $215K

A new Panamera Turbo S (almost as much power as a CTS-V) starts at $175K and can touch $190K