I need a car...and it must have these:

[NoLift911]

at least 500hp or more
4 doors
manual
under $70k
not a Porsche

This just doesn't seem like that hard of a list does it...here is what I will likely get back:

CTS-V - sedan or wagon (this is very high on the list) though something is telling me not to pull the trigger - not sure what it is....maybe two letters GM. (likely go with wagon, 3 kids etc)

This is actually the only car out there meeting the above criteria - which I find hard to believe.

Others considered: The usual bag of tricks...M3 used (sedan), c63, Jeep SRT8, S4, older RS4...

What am I missing. Not look for an older car to mod this is a daily driver.

Nothing is grabbing me - wtf is the (my) problem?

[masraum]

500hp and <$70k and 4 doors all together are actually not going to be that easy. 500hp is not to be laughed at. Because we are in a power war sort of like in the 60s, power levels are going up every year. A few years back 500 was a bunch of power reserved for only very few cars. There are probably some AMG Mercedes that would have your 500hp beat, but even then, most of them are going to be the 6x series which, I think, is usually the 12 cyl cars which means >$70k.

Your requirement for the car to be <$70k probably make a GM or Ford or Dodge the perfect option. You want a lot for cheap. BMW, Merc and Porsche aren't known for being cheap. Heck, to even get a 4dr Porsche with >500hp, you'd have to buy the turbo version of the Panamera which is the most expensive option.

Have you REALLY thought about the specs that you've made requirements? I'm not sure you have.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by P-Dawger

This just doesn't seem like that hard of a list does it...

Actually I disagree.

Not many cars have 500+ HP.
Not many cars have a manual transmission.
Certainly not a lot of cars with the above criteria cost less than $70K.
And not many of them have 4 doors.

I don't think the list is very long. You've already listed the main protagonists: M-series BMW, AMG-series MB, RS-series Audi, the odd Hemi-powered Chrysler, V-series Caddy. Maybe a Maserati Quattroporte.

[NoLift911]

All good points -

Here is the counter: Cars today are bloated with so much garbage, to even be considered a performance variant they need that much hp to get their fat asses off the couch and down the road.

Had e39 M5...great car but fat and oh so delicate...clutch, clutch, clutch 400hp. got rid of that in favor of

06 Jeep SRT8 - yep believe it or not a very fun ride, raw, light (for an SUV) handled great etc...forced to unload that - long story.

Enter today - back with funding now looking for that same raw deal. The new Jeep us weak sauce by all accounts and super fat now. Not much in the power increase either...so pretty mundane. Enter the caddy line up.

Yes I know what I am asking for and I want 500hp plus - again - at least.

All of the cars mentioned are like 5-6k lb behemoths - you need that hp for any type of fun.

Maybe a true paddle shifter would be the ticket - via the c-63? Dear Audi please bring over the RS4 Avant...cash in hand....I would stretch the 70k for this one.

[john walker's workshop]

cadillac.

[vash]

i would run to the caddy store if i had that criteria list.

[911boost]

CTS-V Wagon hands down, not even a decision.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by P-Dawger

All good points -

Here is the counter: Cars today are bloated with so much garbage, to even be considered a performance variant they need that much hp to get their fat asses off the couch and down the road.

That's neither here nor there. There still aren't that many cars with over 500 hp. The list is pretty small. When you start adding your other requirements, the list dwindles down to next to nothing.

You've probably heard the saying:

cheap, reliable, fast, pick two

Well, you're trying to pick all three plus adding a bunch of other stuff.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Used AMG E-class? I believe several model years are right around 500 HP.

[island911]

How about 550 ft-lbs of torque?

[gprsh924]

Is anyone going to point out that it's ludicrous to claim one "need's" 500+ horsepower for a daily driver?

If you can afford it, more power to you. But really, come on. 350 horses in a mid-size sedan isn't enough. I have 225 and it cruises at 90mph like its nothing.

[island911]

Yeah, well I NEED 600 hp! . . .no wait 700 . .no ...


Yeah, it's ludicrous.

[Dueller]

07-and later M5...low mileage (Under 20K) can be found in the mid $40K range...$70K gets you an almost new one).

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hard to fault the CTS-V and AMG models, as well as the Maserati (4 door Ferrari). You're overlooking two really great cars though - Jaguar XFR & XJR. Both are stunning inside and out, many reviews preferred the XFR to the M5. I loved my XJR, it's one of the few cars I really miss.

[gtc]

2008 BMW M5 Sedan $46,999 - Definitive Motors Bellevue Washington 98004

[Paul K]

Is the Overfinch Range Rover available in a manual?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Hard to fault the CTS-V and AMG models, as well as the Maserati (4 door Ferrari). You're overlooking two really great cars though - Jaguar XFR & XJR. Both are stunning inside and out, many reviews preferred the XFR to the M5. I loved my XJR, it's one of the few cars I really miss.

He said that it must have a manual trans which rules out every car on your list, I think. But he also listed a used M3 as a possibility, which only has around 400 HP.

I don't understand the HP requirement at all. I could see a performance requirement, such as sub 5-second 0-60, over 170 mph top speed, a certain 'ring time, etc. But just 500 HP? Who gives a schit? That has nothing to do with performance by itself. And it really has nothing to do with driving fun. I drive AMG Mercedes all the time, (including today), w/ way over 500hp and they're really not that fun. To each their own, I guess...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Oops, missed that. I think the Maserati is available with a manual in the GTS version.

EDIT: Nevermind, the GTS is sportier but still has the flappy paddle gearbox.

[juan ruiz]

I'm almost in the same boat for next year so here is what I came up with, ok, some don't have the exact requirements you are asking, but somewhere you will have to compromise.

Cadillac- it has all, but the interior is too cheesy for me. with wheels they look much better, I think this will be your only choice.

BMW M5- the gas mileage is crazy but still a choice.

Benz C63 AMG- gas mileage is bad also, plus there's a major lawsuit against AMG for premature engine components wear.

BMW 535I- is twin turbo but don't have near 500hp. the new ones does at 85K I think.

BMW 750LI- a very strong contender for me with wheels they look awesome, lack the big power but has the comfort.

Lexus 460- same as the bmw 750LI

Benz CLS 550 AMG- the 6 speed transmission failures and the trouble with the air suspension is something I don't want to deal with it.

Jaguar XF Supercharger or XFR- This will be one of my finalists along with the 750LI.

Now if you find something better please let me know

[speeder]

None of these cars new are worth a fraction of their price and the depreciation proves it. If you have the kind of income or wealth where that just doesn't matter, go for it. I know a guy who walked into the local BMW dealer a few months ago and dropped ~$250k on two new cars: an X6 M for himself, (I know...), and the new 7-series hybrid for the wife. He probably didn't even ask for a discount. I would imagine the sales managers are still blowing each other over that one.

Unless that's your situation, I can't imagine why anyone who's a real car person would even look at any of these extremely over-priced and expensive new cars that for the most part are ugly and not fun. But that's just me.