Gig Tonight

[Rapewta]

Sorry the gig was a "train wreck". All of us have had those. Me, many times.
It is odd that even tho you had a sound-guy it sounded bad.
Usually, not all the time when bands have an 'in-house' sound tech, it goes good.

Back a long time ago, I was in a band with two loud guitar players with egos and
our P.A. wouldn't handle the lows from my bass. I got pissed because I was so far down in the mix playing through a 120W 15" SWR combo.
So, I bought two 4X10 cabs and a 1000W head.
Way overkill for our small gigs but they got the message.

The group I am in now are mature and experienced enough to agree with the levels and eq's before when play the first tune.

Practice today 10 to 2 after stopping at an Indian Casino for breakfast buffet.

Oh.. I agree... drinking is not cool during a gig. I used to have a couple beers when I was first signing up for open mic nights because I was scared.
Even downing a couple during the last set can get you a DUI.

Keep a positive attitude dude. Everything eventually works out for the better.

[targa911S]

Art you are stuttering again..

[azasadny]

Whenever I try to post, it "hangs" then repeats... Weird!

[Superman]

The sound guy showed up about 15 mins before the gig was to start. There was no 'sound check.' And again, stage sound was terrible. I'm feeling pretty crappy today. I really don't have time for all this BS. Going to jam with some new people next weekend anyway. It's no wonder this band has gone through four bass players in the last couple of years. Pretty fed up. The audience actually danced more to the DJ music during our breaks than they did to our music. Perhaps because the break music mix was (of course) correct. I'm just still pissed.

But I do have an actual question. The guitard with the Fender HotRod Deville had his amp on "6" last night. His excuse: The drummer was too loud. Now......this drummer is pretty forceful, but I just question the degree to which a forceful drummer would make a guitarist feel like he needs to crank it. I've never been scared of drummers stepping on my sound. Can anybody verify for me that a loud drummer is a poor excuse for a volume war?

[Dantilla]

There is a difference between a band and a bunch of musicians playing the same song at the same time.

Sounds like last night was just musicians playing the same songs with no spirit of cooperation.

A band will work together- let each other shine as opposed to everybody clamoring for the limelight.
This is where the whole "Less is more" comes into play.

[Superman]

I txt'd a very good friend yesterday morning to ask about guitar compression, thinking this might be a helpful tool. This guy was a contemporary of the Pearl Jam guys and the Alice In Chains guys, who admired his guitar skills for good reason. Jason had continued to play and is now in his 40's. He replied with a bunch of information I didn't understand, so I asked him about mix problems and guitars stepping on each other and everyone else. He laughed, and said he has come to the conclusion that his guitar is almost always too loud. He said that when he is having trouble hearing himself, it is probably still too loud. I need to find some guys who are more seasoned musicians. Guys who've BTDT, and don't have hungry egos. Why are there almost no guitarists who fit this description?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Superman

Why are there almost no guitarists who fit this description?

Supe, you are 54, play bass in a band that gets paid to play: YOU don't fit the description

You do have a hat, though, right?

[Dantilla]

Important question:

We know the stage sound sucked. How was the house sound? Any knowledgable feedback?
House sound will always loose clarity when the stage is too loud.
Whoops! Did I just make a blanket statement?

[Superman]

I'm on the lookout for an appropriate hat. For last night, perhaps something like this, only with counter-rotating props of course.



Dan, I walked out there and listened myself. Plenty of bass in the hip hop music during breaks. None while the band played.

And that's another thing. At our 1:00 finish time, four hours after starting, we had played only three sets. The "break" music went on forever. Twice we stood on the stage and listened to three songs waiting for the sound guy to cut the break music. It was just not the right crowd for us, really. Average age was probably 21.5.

I'm going to check out a bass for sale. Maybe that'll make me happy. I want to see what this P-bass thump reputation is all about.

[rouxroux]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Don't get started on the pissing contest as far as volume or you will end up with this..




and while it is fun and sounds awesome...guess who has to carry it. This is 16 X 10's.

BTDT!!!!! And THEN went to 2 Acoustic 360's with 2 Guild/Hartke 3x10's on top of the 360's. The difference in cone speed gave a strange "flam" effect. Thank goodness I don't have to carry "big rigs" anymore, as backline is usually furnished (Although I do have a nice BagEnd 1x18 and 4x10 (BagEnd has been VAERY good to me over the years), and a few other "smaller rigs" for combo use.

[Joe Bob]

Bunny ears, a side arm, beer and a cell phone always works for me...the Cleveland injuns hat may be over the top....

[Rick Lee]

When I've done soundchecks, I always enjoyed having another guitar player sit in while I walked around the venue and talked to the sound guy. It sounds so different when you're not standing a few ft. in front of the amp. And I often sat on the drum kit for soundcheck while our drummer checked out the sound in front. I've been told so many times that I'm incredibly loud when I could barely hear myself on stage. I never try to overtake the others, but it is hard to play well when you can't hear yourself. And God forbid you're using various pedals and channels and can't hear when you've hit the wrong one, but everyone else can.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Superman

The sound guy showed up about 15 mins before the gig was to start. There was no 'sound check.' And again, stage sound was terrible. I'm feeling pretty crappy today. I really don't have time for all this BS. Going to jam with some new people next weekend anyway. It's no wonder this band has gone through four bass players in the last couple of years. Pretty fed up. The audience actually danced more to the DJ music during our breaks than they did to our music. Perhaps because the break music mix was (of course) correct. I'm just still pissed.

But I do have an actual question. The guitard with the Fender HotRod Deville had his amp on "6" last night. His excuse: The drummer was too loud. Now......this drummer is pretty forceful, but I just question the degree to which a forceful drummer would make a guitarist feel like he needs to crank it. I've never been scared of drummers stepping on my sound. Can anybody verify for me that a loud drummer is a poor excuse for a volume war?

\

First off, while life is short, the reality is that some gigs suck. So do some bands. I've been in good and bad groups, and even the good ones have issues. It is the nature of the beast.

The HR Devilles are loud amps. I'm willing to be that his amp was on the ground and not tilted back or on a stand with tilt? That the the first step towards solving the "I can't hear myself" problem with guitarists. Loud drummers are often the catalyst for volume wars, but guitarists often are deaf to their own playing for some reason (I have this in one of my current bands).

Personally I don't like 15s, and I think that is part of your problem. What you can hear on stage are mids, so you need to eq for that and I vastly prefer a 2-10 or 4-10 cabinet. Since I play a lot of smaller gigs I have a 2-10 cab as a 4-10 is overkill. I have a second one that I stack vertical for larger gigs. But last night I had good FOH support so it was the Aguilar TH500 head with a single Bergantino AE210. My master wasn't even to 9 o'clock.

You really need to get the guitarists to tilt their cabinets. They need the speakers pointing at their heads so they can hear themselves while standing in front of them (instead of having them pointing at their knees). Also, guitarists also often eq their amps wrong - way too much bass. They dial in their amps for what sounds good at home playing by themselves. Then they get into a mix and there is way too much low end (fights with the bass player) and too much highs (fights with the cymbals).

The good thing is that a good bass player can always find another band. So if it is miserable, then look elsewhere. Or just play with these guys when they have a gig.

My gig last night was a blast - we had some really good vocalists coming up, and I even had fun playing "Rolling in the Deep" multiple times. This was the first gig for the new Monarch (the last new bass for awhile - ha!). Mmm, koa...

[notmytarga]

Enjoyed the stage sound discussion..... as someone who has spent time looking at sound boards but never managed one. Well, there was that time when I shut down the echo on one channel when my daughters choir was between numbers. I think I have a better ear for a mix than some of the houses I've been in. One High School vocal concert had monitors going but little house sound. The 'engineer' was reading a book and defensive. Improved a while later. That should be a lot easier than mixing a band.

A high school friend plays some gigs near Seattle, where he lives now. Perhaps he is the guy with the too loud amp, or maybe someone who wants to play with a new bass player.... In high school he could recreate just about any guitar solo, playing behind his back! I don't know much about what he is up to except what I see on FaceBook:

A place called Big Daddys is in some of his pictures. Recognize him?

[azasadny]

Our sound guy at church is fantastic and I simply cannot believe how good he can make us sound. The most underrated person at a gig is the sound guy (or gal), they can make or break a show!

[targa911S]

WHAAAAAT!!! No hat? 30 days in the hole buddy!
Todd is right yer not going steady with these guys, play with them when they play but look for others. Always easy get a job when you got a job.......

I HAD to laugh out loud last night while I fell into a Joe Bonasamma show on TV last night. He had this wall of Marshalls behind him. I was wondering how many were really working. Then I thought about the White House Blues show last week with ALL the greats. There wasn't an amp bigger than 4-10 on the stage. Bass player excluded of course. But then I'm using an SVT 410HLF and a PF-500 in rooms that big myself.


Now to photoshop a hat on Todd.




Hey Todd is your Hard Rock a "pay to play" venue?

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Superman

The sound guy showed up about 15 mins before the gig was to start. There was no 'sound check.' And again, stage sound was terrible. I'm feeling pretty crappy today. I really don't have time for all this BS. Going to jam with some new people next weekend anyway. It's no wonder this band has gone through four bass players in the last couple of years. Pretty fed up. The audience actually danced more to the DJ music during our breaks than they did to our music. Perhaps because the break music mix was (of course) correct. I'm just still pissed.

But I do have an actual question. The guitard with the Fender HotRod Deville had his amp on "6" last night. His excuse: The drummer was too loud. Now......this drummer is pretty forceful, but I just question the degree to which a forceful drummer would make a guitarist feel like he needs to crank it. I've never been scared of drummers stepping on my sound. Can anybody verify for me that a loud drummer is a poor excuse for a volume war?

does your guitard leave is HRD on the floor or does he prop it up on a chair or table or at least angle it?

You leave your combo on the floor, especially a fender with no mids, and expect to hear it over a drummer and your an idiot

a loud drummer can be difficult. using something with strong mids like a vox helps but always put your combo up off the floor

i dont give a crap about hearing myself in the monitor. i want to hear my amp coming from my amp

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by targa911S

WHAAAAAT!!! No hat? 30 days in the hole buddy!
Todd is right yer not going steady with these guys, play with them when they play but look for others. Always easy get a job when you got a job.......

I HAD to laugh out loud last night while I fell into a Joe Bonasamma show on TV last night. He had this wall of Marshalls behind him. I was wondering how many were really working. Then I thought about the White House Blues show last week with ALL the greats. There wasn't an amp bigger than 4-10 on the stage. Bass player excluded of course. But then I'm using an SVT 410HLF and a PF-500 in rooms that big myself.

saw it too (white house)...that gary clark jr has a killer tone i think. sorta similar to Dan Auerbach of the black keys....now talk about loud..i saw the black keys about 7 years ago at a little bar in oxford mississippi and was standing 5 feet from his two fender super reverbs that were turned up to 10. holy crap what a sound

as for me, the louder the better..just mix it right

[Superman]

I have finally gotten the guitarist to tilt his amp but....he doesn't tile it back very far. It still points at his thighs. His tone is largely just treble. He told a story about some sound guy somewhere who told him that there should be no bass and almost no mid in electric guitar sound. I cringed when he told that story, convinced of it's truth. He was, as you mentioned Todd, fighting with the cymbals.

Yes, bass players can always find work. That's comforting. I am bored with this band.....done learning the songs. IT was HARD, and that's fun for me but the steep part of the hill is over. For my next challenge......vocals.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Hey Todd is your Hard Rock a "pay to play" venue?

No, that actually is a very sweet gig. It is a "live band karaoke" thing and the pay is decent, they feed us, and we're out of there by 12:30am. Since the servers end up wanting to perform, they take care of the band well

For other shows, I don't know. I don't think so though. Plenty of other places in LA are pay to play but we don't do any of them. Happily one of the jazz groups I play in does do nothing but paying gigs, and Steely Jam booked one good summer gig.

Supe, your guitar player is nuts. Then again, that is redundant