No grey area at all. Apprentices have been common in the art world since, at least, the Renaissance, e.g., Rubens, many of whose paintings were painted to one degree or another by apprentices and then signed by him.

Glass work requires a team. Chihuly's team, he's the artist leading the team.

saddly complete separation as I never met ether guy
and BiL is terminal Alzheimer's now
my niece is over there in france now
but out of the direct line :(

the old family estate in south of france is unreal
huge manor house on open clearing in forest
I have only seen pic's and goolged it
but goes to the eldest son

no I never liked dali as he was a showman more then an artist
but my brother knew him and worked for him briefly

my brothers SiL and niece's work here

NET IN ARCADIA

That's because it's not true.

Really? More people than...other days? Source?

Compare what with guys like Hemmingway? :confused:

Submitted without comment, (warning, bad words)

Tool - Hooker with a penis - YouTube

My Mom was a professional artist and my dad did a lot of art himself, but not as a job. And very early on in life I figured out that real artists don't look like artists. And generally anyone who tried hard to look like an artist, walked the walk, was just a noddy who was still trying to find themselves late in life.

A chick I know who works in art wanted to really know the down and out feel so for a few months threw away her middle class private school background and lived in a squat working as a prostitute. LOL, I wish I knew - I'd have given her $50.

I did not know this was a particularly American perception about art - I thought it started in France...

Anyway, I've always thought it was a "paying your dues" type thing -- suffering for your chosen career.

Of course, many other fields have the same thing -- martial arts, MDs, scientists, other types of art, yada yada...

What is your problem?

You asked, "Could someone please explain to me why is it that if you are an "artist" the worse your living conditions are the more cred you get."

Then you said, "This makes no sense to me."

I AGREE WITH YOU, slakjaw!

Makes no damned sense to me neither! Why? Because it's dumb, not true.

Starving artists? Some still use that term?

Seriously, do you know much about the global art world?

i was blown away to find a Dali in the art room of the vatican. that church owns some crazy art collection!

And the world's largest collection of pornography, I've heard for decades.

...maybe even a dead body or two.

Perhaps the suffring artist story started with Van Gogh..cut off an ear was in an asylum, supported by his Brother Theo and only sold ONE painting in his lifetime...

An artist can put shyte on a Board and if the name at the bottom of the piece should be Picasso, Matisse, or Monet it is worth bank.

Yes and no one called him an artist in his day. Now it's a self-appointed title.

Only as it relates to photography. I am a member of a studio and there are a BUNCH of guys who call themselves artists. They are not photographers, they are artists...

Then I look at guys who I idolize like, Sebastião Salgado, whos imagery is light years better than 99% of people who even own a camera and he hates the term artist.

I guess I just don't think it should be self appointed. Saying, I'm an artist doesn't even make sense since the term is so broad.

I apologize for the misunderstanding earlier.

Of course most artists don't sue their former apprentices when they go off on their own and make art that is, god forbid, similar to that of their master.
Yeah, Chihuly is kind of a douche.

I'll Google this. I don't follow that stuff and Chihuly's pretty glass work isn't my cup of tea.

However, in terms of technical virtuosity, kinda always thought of Chihuly as the Al Hirt of glass artists. Dale'd probably dig that comparo - hah! Miles Davis he's not, though.

I met him. He signed a book for me. I think he even gave me the book!

Here's the deal:
 

If you make art, you are an artist. There is nothing in the definition of the word "artist" that implies quality or competence or talent. That is a constraint on the term that people such as yourself have created. It is a simple word. It carries no status by itself. "Good" or "bad" art is extremely subjective.

It's nothing to get yourself wound-up over. If you **** on a board and sign it, you are an artist. Just a really bad one, like most of the artists in the world. :)

I never really felt anything for Van Gogh's work until I saw Starry Night in person. As a non art person, I was blown away.

I think Don McLean's song ''Vincent'' put it pretty well. For the others, the Talking Heads wrote ''For Artists Only''.

Beautiful black and white photography, my favorite. One can easily become seduced by color and be distracted from aspects of the photo which would prevent it being a successful b&w print, in particular, contrast.