Lexus CT 200h Hybrid

[porsche4life]

Juan, you mentioned the A3. Why not a tdi A3?

[juan ruiz]

I think the A3 is like a stationwagon? Kind off? I was looking at the ford focus and the ST looks sexy but it appears that they only come stick shift? Considering that I was ready to buy a 750Li this is now a whole new ball game

[kaisen]

I'll present some more math then

25,000 miles per year, 90% freeway

2012 BMW 328i 2.0L Turbo, automatic, 3400lbs, 240hp/255lb-ft, 0-60mph 5.8 secs, $2500 per year (Premium, $2350 using regular)

2012 Audi A3 FWD 2.0L TDI, automatic, 3450lbs, 140hp/236lb-ft, 0-60mph 8.9 secs, $2350 per year

2012 Lexus CT200h, 1.8L hybrid, CVT, 3350lbs, 134hp/142lb-ft, 0-60mph 10.4 secs, $2000 per year

So you're okay paying $35K-plus for a small car, but will make your decision on saving a few hundred bucks a year in fuel costs!?!?

[juan ruiz]

Your math of car cost versus fuel saving clearly shows that the Lexus is indeed a bad choice even at 30k for a used one. What about the Benz E350 with the new bluetech engine? I think they are rated at 36 mpg and Ive seen used ones for 47k? I know this is a new animal but i would like your opinion on that.

[kaisen]

The broader brush here is this:

How much money would you have to "save" in fuel costs before it's worth driving something you don't love?

Some people (lots of Pelicans, for example) like the sound, feel, torque, and smugness that driving a diesel gives them. They can justify it however the want, but when it comes down to it, they actually like it. It makes them happy.

Will your wife be happier driving a diesel? Worrying about adding BlueTec (urea) fluid? Dispensing diesel from smelly dirty pumps? Happy driving into the gas station seeing the sign say $3.179 for gasoline and $3.619 for diesel (it bothers some people)?

Will she be happier driving a hybrid? Being able to show her dedication and commitment to the environment? Would she get a smile silently pulling away from a stop under pure electric power? Watching the eco readouts and playing with her driving style to get the very best fuel economy numers? Some people love that about their hybrids.

Will she be happier driving the nicest car overall, without considering which drivetrain?

She's going to spend a couple hours a day in the thing.... she's got to like it, however she measures that. For some it's the ride/quiet/smooth characteristics. For others it's safety/size (lots of accident exposure). For others it's the technology/toys/sound/nav. Or comfy seats. Or, or, or... Only she'll know

[juan ruiz]

Dang Eric!! you don't make this any easy on me!!! Outstanding point of view!

How much money would you have to "save" in fuel costs before it's worth driving something you don't love?


I can see the 750LI back into this equation! LOL

[aigel]

Originally Posted by juan ruiz

I think the A3 is like a stationwagon? Kind off? I was looking at the ford focus and the ST looks sexy but it appears that they only come stick shift? Considering that I was ready to buy a 750Li this is now a whole new ball game

It is as much a hatchback as the Lexus. Difference is that you can actually see out the back and take stuff!



I have a Golf TDI and really like it. I believe that it will be cheaper on the interstate than the other contenders, because it will do real world 50 mpg if you stay out of it. I have averaged over 42 mpg with mine in one year, much of it in stop and go interstate traffic.



Kaisen, you keep saying that Diesel is more $ than gas and use examples of >10%. It isn't the case right now. I'd love to have the raw data on this graph to tell the average % premium over time. How do we predict the future delta?



Here some more food for thought:
40 mpg compact sedan comparison - Yahoo! Autos

I can see it coming, it will be the 750iL.

G

[aigel]

The fuel price data is here.
http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/
I was hoping for some quick work in excel, but it isn't in a simple list. Too much work, I have to go to the beach now.

G

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by aigel

The fuel price data is here.
Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Update

This is exactly where I get my data

In Florida, gasoline is $3.17 and diesel is $3.61
That's what all calculations in this thread are based on

You live in California, G

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by aigel

Here some more food for thought:
40 mpg compact sedan comparison - Yahoo! Autos

You're making my point. The HIGHEST fuel economy they recorded? The Chevy Cruze at 43.1mpg. Higher than any other, higher than the Jetta TDI. But diesel is the be-all, end-all, cat's meow, right?

Here's a different look (from the article linked) at the relative fuel economies at different constant speeds:

[aigel]

Originally Posted by kaisen

You're making my point. The HIGHEST fuel economy they recorded? The Chevy Cruze at 43.1mpg. Higher than any other, higher than the Jetta TDI. But diesel is the be-all, end-all, cat's meow, right?
[/img]

Of course! We are back at wanting to drive a car for other reasons than fuel economy. You wouldn't catch me dead in a small 4 door sedan. That's for reasons of styling first, but I also need the hatchback for running around with my 4 legged friends. If they'd make a hatchback, I'd consider the Cruze. The Ford Focus certainly is on my radar if I am in the market again.

G

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by aigel

If they'd make a hatchback, I'd consider the Cruze.

[kaisen]

Or maybe you have big dogs?

[aigel]

That's new for 2012?

Let's see how this TDI holds up. If it is time to sell at 3 years, the Cruze looks like a good new car for little out of pocket. I have really enjoyed owning a new car with nothing to do but drive ...

G

[JAR0023]

Haven't seen the new Acura ILX mentioned.

J

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[Ronbo]

I seem to remember reading those Cruze hatchbacks will not be sold in North America.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I seem to remember reading those Cruze hatchbacks will not be sold in North America.

Correct, not yet

[juan ruiz]

ok I'm lowering my standards LOL 26MPG in Style Eric you are the car adviser here

2010- 32,00 miles 43K

[kaisen]

E350 Sport (with aftermarket 19s?)

You really should be well under $40K, but if it's immaculate it's not like you're unjustifiably high

But for the car itself, most people that have them love them
I've bought a few for clients, even in Florida

Here's a recent thread:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/687942-2010-mercedes-e350-any-common-issues.html

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by kaisen

If you DIDN'T know about brand image, which car looks more expensive? Sportier?

For a few bucks a body shop could throw Lexus badges on a Ford or Hyundai... problem solved!