Children with Mental Illness.

[TGTIW]

I have no desire to start or further a firearms debate, ultimately I think it's a symptom and not the actual problem. Please move this to PARF if it get's, well, too PARF-Y.

If you have a moment, read this blog. It's written by the mother of a boy with a mental illness. I think this does a better job than any of highlighting where the actual problem resides.

The Anarchist Soccer Mom

[Christien]

I read that yesterday. And I'm really optimistic that this incident might just be the one that finally makes everyone wake up and change things. There seems to be a lot of discussion in the media, social networking, etc. these last few days about mental illness, and our piss-poor record of treating it effectively. There seems to be a real groundswell movement to make some changes in this area, which could actually have a real impact on things like school shootings. IMO, this is much more productive that BS politicians talking tough on security, guns, etc. and not really doing anything other than talking.

Obama said:
In the coming weeks, I’ll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because what choice do we have? We can’t accept events like this as routine.

Let's make sure that really happens, that it's not just rhetoric.

[jcommin]

Move this please. I'm not about to stereotype those with mental issues as I have mild case of depression I'm on medication. My oldest boy has ADHD and today is a vice-president of a company.

If (we) can't have an open discussion putting all things on the table, any discussion will get political and will go nowhere. "Same as it everwas".

[GH85Carrera]

I personally think that the culture of never "squeeling" and calling an informant a RAT is a big part of the problem. No kid wants to be the rat or the squeeler so they keep quiet. In so many cases the crazy kid has mentioned his desire to hurt others. The kids that knew did not say anything because they don't want to be the rat. That culture HAS to change.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Wow. It takes some real courage to accept those things about your child, then write about it. Powerful stuff.

Turning this debate towards gun control is addressing a symptom, not the problem. Normal sane individuals do not walk into a public school and start shooting children. Or walk into a movie theater, or a mall, etc etc etc. The story is always the same, an intelligent but troubled loner that couldn't fit into society eventually snaps. We need to address the problem well before it gets to the point of violence, because there's a million ways to kill innocent people.

[VaSteve]

Read down further in that woman's blog. Another person has debunked her post and claims the mother is attention seeking. Taken on its own, it is compelling however.

I keep reading about how that small town is a'community'. How is it that this always comes from a suburb or a "tight knit' community? I think techknowlegdy lets people live in a parallel world. Why'd this not happen long ago? People knew each other I guess. Seems nobody knew this guy. Lived there but didnt.

[jcommin]

No parent, I mean no parent will openly admit thier child had emotional or mental issues. Any child on Ritalin, zoloff and the like has as issue. You don't want to stereotype your child. I lived thru this - I felt ashamed about my older boy going to a therapeutic school.

I will never do that again - feel ashamed!

[VaSteve]

No parent, I mean no parent will openly admit thier child had emotional or mental issues. Any child on Ritalin, zoloff and the like has as issue. You don't want to stereotype your child. I lived thru this - I felt ashamed about my older boy going to a therapeutic school.



I will never do that again - feel ashamed!

Isn't that part of the problem? So many kids are on medicine, treatment, etc. Shouldnt we be treating this like high blood pressure and other diseases? Diabetes has no stigma. The brain is far more complicated but we treat it as mystery.

[widgeon13]

Our society has come to the point where we do what we want and not what is right. I am thoroughly convinced of this.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by jcommin

No parent, I mean no parent will openly admit thier child had emotional or mental issues.

Really? My experience is the exact opposite. I know several people whose kids have issues, from as mild as ADHD right up to full-blown schizophrenia (committed suicide due to it). In all these cases the parents have not only recognized and admitted their child has a problem, but have been quite open about it.

My wife is an elementary school teacher and both my kids are in public elementary school, so this subject is obviously pretty important to me. Just looking at some stats last night, this school shooting thing is nothing new, it's been going on for decades, but it has indeed dramatically increased in the last 10-15 years. In the US, it seems to occur most frequently in small towns, or bedroom communities. Here in Canada, it seems confined to our major cities. Around the world, shootings occur almost exclusively in high schools and colleges, mostly high schools.

But the most important stat, IMO, is that school shootings occur in the US far more than anywhere else. I didn't count, but it might even be more than the rest of the world combined. If not, it's certainly close. There's something about the US that makes this occur more often, and I think that's what needs to be the target of any investigation, discussion, soul searching, etc. Why does it happen there so much more than anywhere else? And this is a question that MUST transcend political beliefs, ideologies and religion. This is more important than ideology, pro- or anti-gun beliefs, religious thoughts, shame or embarrassment over mental health issues, or political beliefs regarding funding them. All that needs to be pushed aside to arrive at REAL, HONEST answers to difficult questions.

As soon as the discussion gets caught up in politics, the issue will die, as will more children.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by jcommin

No parent, I mean no parent will openly admit thier child had emotional or mental issues. Any child on Ritalin, zoloff and the like has as issue. You don't want to stereotype your child. I lived thru this - I felt ashamed about my older boy going to a therapeutic school.

I will never do that again - feel ashamed!

Isn't that part of the problem? The failure of parents to admit there is a problem and seek help?

[VaSteve]

Where I live we have intermediate schools. 7th and 8th grade. I'm told this is because that's when kids go through so much development emotionally. Too old for elementary school, not ready for high school. What's it like in other parts of the country?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Where I live we have intermediate schools. 7th and 8th grade. I'm told this is because that's when kids go through so much development emotionally. Too old for elementary school, not ready for high school. What's it like in other parts of the country?

My son's catholic school is K-8, then he goes onto a 9-12 high school. I went to a K-8, a 7-8 middle school, and a 9-12 high school.

[Chocaholic]

An interesting comment made a few posts up. We treat mental illness with medication. Yet, we understand so little about how the brain works. Worse yet, Psychology and yes, Psychiatry is far from an exact science. One could argue that many prescriptions are written by Psychiatrists without definitive knowledge of cause and effect. The word "quackery" comes to mind.

My own son had been on medication a number of years ago under the care of a Psychiatrist. He took us through several "lets-try-this" prescriptions until he felt he was achieving the desired effect. Nonsense! I believe this is much too common and may be contributing to these horrific events.

Malpractice?

[azasadny]

Originally Posted by Christien

Really? My experience is the exact opposite. I know several people whose kids have issues, from as mild as ADHD right up to full-blown schizophrenia (committed suicide due to it). In all these cases the parents have not only recognized and admitted their child has a problem, but have been quite open about it.

My wife is an elementary school teacher and both my kids are in public elementary school, so this subject is obviously pretty important to me. Just looking at some stats last night, this school shooting thing is nothing new, it's been going on for decades, but it has indeed dramatically increased in the last 10-15 years. In the US, it seems to occur most frequently in small towns, or bedroom communities. Here in Canada, it seems confined to our major cities. Around the world, shootings occur almost exclusively in high schools and colleges, mostly high schools.

But the most important stat, IMO, is that school shootings occur in the US far more than anywhere else. I didn't count, but it might even be more than the rest of the world combined. If not, it's certainly close. There's something about the US that makes this occur more often, and I think that's what needs to be the target of any investigation, discussion, soul searching, etc. Why does it happen there so much more than anywhere else? And this is a question that MUST transcend political beliefs, ideologies and religion. This is more important than ideology, pro- or anti-gun beliefs, religious thoughts, shame or embarrassment over mental health issues, or political beliefs regarding funding them. All that needs to be pushed aside to arrive at REAL, HONEST answers to difficult questions.

As soon as the discussion gets caught up in politics, the issue will die, as will more children.

Good points made. We have more than 300M people in the US , so we'll have more violent crime. Norway had a similar horrific shooting last year and 77 were killed and Norway has about 4m people. We do not have a "mental health system" in the US, so mentally ill/emotionally disturbed people do not receive effective treatment and a certain percentage of these people may commit violent crimes. My wife is also a teacher and she sees this daily and my father and brother are both retired LEO's and they have both seen it. The root cause is untreated mental illness.... We must treat these people or this will continue... There should be no shame in admitting that you or someone you love is mentally or emotionally ill, it's an illness, no different from a physical ailment and may in fact have a physical cause.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

[QUOTE=Christien;7154522]But the most important stat, IMO, is that school shootings occur in the US far more than anywhere else. I didn't count, but it might even be more than the rest of the world combined. If not, it's certainly close. There's something about the US that makes this occur more often, and I think that's what needs to be the target of any investigation, discussion, soul searching, etc. Why does it happen there so much more than anywhere else? And this is a question that MUST transcend political beliefs, ideologies and religion. This is more important than ideology, pro- or anti-gun beliefs, religious thoughts, shame or embarrassment over mental health issues, or political beliefs regarding funding them. All that needs to be pushed aside to arrive at REAL, HONEST answers to difficult questions.

[QUOTE]


As I remember my history, many organizations use(d) school shootings and mass murders to gain notoriaty. For an example, the rebels in El Salvador purposely targeted schools in order to spread fear and the feeling the government coult not or would not do anything to protect the children. The taliban targets schools with female students. There are many countries in this world with far more issues of attacks on specific groups than is experienced in the US. We just have a "better" method of dissiminating information and notoriaty.

I do not think this is a US only issue. This is a global issue and has been for thousands of years. We just have better tools today than 100/1,000 years ago.


I do agree we need to address the mental health needs of society. This has been the case for a long time. The vocalization of needs is becoming much stronger.

My concern is about the efforts to attack elementary schools all on the same day in disparate parts of the US by seemingly unrelated individuals. I fear a different agenda of fear from a different group.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by azasadny

Good points made. We have more than 300M people in the US , so we'll have more violent crime. Norway had a similar horrific shooting last year and 77 were killed and Norway has about 4m people. We do not have a "mental health system" in the US, so mentally ill/emotionally disturbed people do not receive effective treatment and a certain percentage of these people may commit violent crimes. My wife is also a teacher and she sees this daily and my father and brother are both retired LEO's and they have both seen it. The root cause is untreated mental illness.... We must treat these people or this will continue... There should be no shame in admitting that you or someone you love is mentally or emotionally ill, it's an illness, no different from a physical ailment and may in fact have a physical cause.

Or, perhaps the result of incorrect treatment and case management.

[stomachmonkey]

My boy is in 4th grade. ADHD. We resisted medication as long as we could. We tried all manner of 'homeopathic" alternatives before we relented.

We relented because his ADHD was affecting his schoolwork, his handwriting was completely illegible, he could not focus long enough to complete assignments and tests. It was affecting his sense of self worth.

He's gone thru a couple of different meds trying to find one that works best. 6 months ago we took him off Intuniv as it made him moody, sad, introverted.

He's on Focalin and a much happier kid. Still a major handfull, typical energetic whirling dervish 9 year old.

As long as he is able to focus and do well in school I can deal with the hyperactivity.

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Where I live we have intermediate schools. 7th and 8th grade. I'm told this is because that's when kids go through so much development emotionally. Too old for elementary school, not ready for high school. What's it like in other parts of the country?

My daughter is in middle school. Her school is interesting, 6th, 7th and 8th grade. Each grade has it's own wing and the different grades are not exposed to each other.

I like it, there is a profound difference between a 6th and 8th grader. The age difference between the youngest 6th grader and oldest 8th grader can be 4 years.

I live in an upper middle class neighborhood, very safe, normal kids. Our Elementary and Middle schools are inside our community, more like a private school than a public school.

But the middle and HS's both have a full time 5 day a week Denton County Sheriff assigned to each school.

Kinda bothered me at first. This place is about as safe as you can get, nothing ever happens around here.

Somehow this morning dropping off the kids and seeing the Sherriffs truck in it's usual spot felt OK.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Christien

Really? My experience is the exact opposite. I know several people whose kids have issues, from as mild as ADHD right up to full-blown schizophrenia (committed suicide due to it). In all these cases the parents have not only recognized and admitted their child has a problem, but have been quite open about it.

My wife is an elementary school teacher and both my kids are in public elementary school, so this subject is obviously pretty important to me. Just looking at some stats last night, this school shooting thing is nothing new, it's been going on for decades, but it has indeed dramatically increased in the last 10-15 years. In the US, it seems to occur most frequently in small towns, or bedroom communities. Here in Canada, it seems confined to our major cities. Around the world, shootings occur almost exclusively in high schools and colleges, mostly high schools.

But the most important stat, IMO, is that school shootings occur in the US far more than anywhere else. I didn't count, but it might even be more than the rest of the world combined. If not, it's certainly close. There's something about the US that makes this occur more often, and I think that's what needs to be the target of any investigation, discussion, soul searching, etc. Why does it happen there so much more than anywhere else? And this is a question that MUST transcend political beliefs, ideologies and religion. This is more important than ideology, pro- or anti-gun beliefs, religious thoughts, shame or embarrassment over mental health issues, or political beliefs regarding funding them. All that needs to be pushed aside to arrive at REAL, HONEST answers to difficult questions.

As soon as the discussion gets caught up in politics, the issue will die, as will more children.

I beleive a teacher will readily see issues with children. We had an IEP (Individual education programs) programs that address issues. My wife and I met with the school to review the performance of our son and adjusted the program as needed. I know of no parent who will admit to their child being on an IEP. Addtionally the idea of medication is rapmanent in schools. When my oldest was in middle school, we learned that 70% of the middle school enrollment went to the school nurse for medication. This could be something as simple as an asprin or if a child needed meds for asthesma or diabeties.

I found myself seeking out parents whose children had issues - we shared information. But I will tell you when it comes to school funding and budgets, money will go to gifted programs or programs for phyiscally challenged kids than for mental or emotional needs.

Most children who have ADHD or similar issues do function quite well as adults.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

An interesting comment made a few posts up. We treat mental illness with medication. Yet, we understand so little about how the brain works. Worse yet, Psychology and yes, Psychiatry is far from an exact science. One could argue that many prescriptions are written by Psychiatrists without definitive knowledge of cause and effect. The word "quackery" comes to mind.

My own son had been on medication a number of years ago under the care of a Psychiatrist. He took us through several "lets-try-this" prescriptions until he felt he was achieving the desired effect. Nonsense! I believe this is much too common and may be contributing to these horrific events.

Malpractice?

No, a good doctor will try and see because the type and dosage affects everyone differently. That is why prescription drugs are more dangerous that pot. You can mix match drugs without knowing what and how the effects of the drug works.