There is Nothing More Disgusting Than Wasting Energy...

[M.D. Holloway]

sammyg2, thanks for the link - while I sure can understand the practice for safety reasons it somehow reminds me of tanneries 100 years ago - dump chromates, its safer.

I don't like it and I don't buy it. I know its not simple and I not its not that easy but I also know that industry will only do just what it has to in order to squeeze the best margins. Implementing a system or protocol to deal with this is expensive but God D***It! It should have been figured in all along.

I am so fed up with what industry is doing to the environment. Its true. We are polluting are planet plain and simple. There is no arguing that fact. Any and all emissions are bad so why the heck can't we figure out a way to minimize them almost completely?

Oh ya, it would raise the cost of everything...Bull Shyt. That's just Bull Shyt. The profits that are enjoyed are staggering. I don't want to take away from capitalism but industry in general is a greedy whore that has an insatiable appetite to take all it can and crap out as much as possible that is legally sound.

This is ony going to hurt us. It will. We look at the stupid shyt we did not even 25 years ago and shake our heads. The stupidity we are doing now is absolutley amazing. At somepoint I have to think, no make that I want to believe that the industrial animal will develop a sense of reason.

Rant over for now...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by IROC

We produce hydrogen and oxygen from water (radiolysis) here and blow it out a stack. Maybe we should capture that.

You should!

Use the hydrogen to power a set of fuel cells.

Use the oxygen to power some gerbils in an exercise wheel. Hook it up to the grid and summon the ghost of William Proxmire.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

Oh ya, it would raise the cost of everything...Bull Shyt. That's just Bull Shyt. The profits that are enjoyed are staggering. I don't want to take away from capitalism but industry in general is a greedy whore that has an insatiable appetite to take all it can and crap out as much as possible that is legally sound.
...

That is because the costs are externalized, but the benefits are internalized. Basic Econ, Mike.

Also, the really severe costs are diffuse and long term. This means the control signal in the feedback loop is ineffective in modulating the systems output (or transforming it). Basic control theory.

Much of human behavior is easily explicable once you realize it is just a bunch of monkeys with technology.

Anyway, don't buy any property near Galvez-town.

[RWebb]

not sure re int'l moratorium but did find this:

U.S. Gas Flaring Visible from Space as Fracking Industry Booms – EcoWatch: Uniting the Voice of the Grassroots Environmental Movement

flaring methane is a LOT better in terms of greenhouse effects than letting the methane enter the atmosphere

CH4 is a very potent global warming gas - that is a main issue with moving to a NG based power instead of coal; you need to contain the leaks - if you do, then you cut greenhouse effects in HALF, which is hug (and, you avoid polltuion from mercury and clao dust, slag piles, etc. etc.)

[gtc]

I just ran across this slide, which I found interesting.

[RWebb]

so, this thread has flared up again

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

If you see a flame near the 405 in Torrance, that's exonmobil paying fines.
Their flare should not be going off $$$$$$$$.

If anyone wants to read the SCAQMD rule 1118 on industrial flaring, here's the link although I bet no one gets past page 4 before being bored to tears:

http://www.aqmd.gov/rules/reg/reg11/r1118.pdf

Then they (and also Chevron in Gundo)must have been paying fines every day for the last 30 years. Every time I've driven by there (every day, morning and night up until a year ago) those flares have been going.

[Joe Bob]

You either flare it or burn it in an engine. Greenhouse gas if left to emit w/o a burn. The flare relieves pressure.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

haven't got'n your check yet huh? Funny thing, of all the folks I interviewed for my book, all the ones that were opposed to fracing do not get a royality check. I have not met a single sould who gets a check and complains that fracing is a bad idea....imagine that...

From what I understand, the ones who are mad are the ones who have contaminated aquifers.

[Instrument 41]

I may be wrong but I didn't think that to flare off was a fine but the fines came in when the initial burn started and the hydrocarbons were not scrubed well and you get the black smoke.

[RWebb]

may well be differences between Louisiana (esp. in Baton Crude) and California re when they will fine, etc.

IIRC, EPA allows the states to come up with their own air quality plans


BTW - the use of flaring tends to cut against an industry argument re fracking & gas pipelines - they claim that little methane will be emitted to the atmosphere because they would lose money - but if they already flare off excess methane, then the monetary loss is unlikely to be very great

OTOH - EPA just reduced their estimates of methane leak volumes

[Joe Bob]

States can be stricter but can not reduce basic Federal Laws.

[M.D. Holloway]

Industry in general will do exactly what it is allowed to do...rarely do they go beyond unless there is a positive spin for stockholders...

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

sammyg2, thanks for the link - while I sure can understand the practice for safety reasons it somehow reminds me of tanneries 100 years ago - dump chromates, its safer.

I don't like it and I don't buy it. I know its not simple and I not its not that easy but I also know that industry will only do just what it has to in order to squeeze the best margins. Implementing a system or protocol to deal with this is expensive but God D***It! It should have been figured in all along.

I am so fed up with what industry is doing to the environment. Its true. We are polluting are planet plain and simple. There is no arguing that fact. Any and all emissions are bad so why the heck can't we figure out a way to minimize them almost completely?

Oh ya, it would raise the cost of everything...Bull Shyt. That's just Bull Shyt. The profits that are enjoyed are staggering. I don't want to take away from capitalism but industry in general is a greedy whore that has an insatiable appetite to take all it can and crap out as much as possible that is legally sound.

This is ony going to hurt us. It will. We look at the stupid shyt we did not even 25 years ago and shake our heads. The stupidity we are doing now is absolutley amazing. At somepoint I have to think, no make that I want to believe that the industrial animal will develop a sense of reason.

Rant over for now...

Take your rant and shove it.
Nothing worse that some ignorant fool pointing fingers and making false accusations based on absolutely no thought, understanding, or comprehension of the subject.

Whatza matter, you run out of other stupid threads to start in a weak attempt at attention and pity?

Lay off the drama queen crap and whatever you are ingesting that makes you so mentally unstable.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Instrument 41

I may be wrong but I didn't think that to flare off was a fine but the fines came in when the initial burn started and the hydrocarbons were not scrubed well and you get the black smoke.

That is not the case in California although I expect the environmental laws in the gulf states to be much different than those here.
They typically run about 10 or 15 years behind the laws in California. Here's flaring gets measured in total volume.

Wait until you get some of the California laws that say you shall not do something, and then on the next page it says you shall do the exact same thing.
The laws are so poorly written they are often in direct contradiction, but that's OK. That just means they can fine the company either way.

[bkreigsr]

wasn't yesterday sink-hole de mayo?