British GP

[911Freak]

I just find it ironic that Pirelli is taking it up the backside from the teams, drivers and general public, for this problem, in light of the fact that they wanted to make a change for this race that might likely have prevented it and were prevented from doing so by the teams. And, the FIA reprimands them for a tire test that they ran to work on the safety of their product, as used, then 10 days later thinks more testing is a great idea.



JR

That is why F1 is often referred to as a circus!
Fact is the FIA and Bernie lack the clout to persuade the teams to assimilate. Hammer and anvil!

This wouldn't have happened (and didn't) back when Max & Bernie were running the show. Not that I believe that was a good duo for F1 but they got things done. With exception of Indy in 06?

If Bernie was in his prime he'd of conceived of a way to get this/or have prevented this from occurring. Bringing in a 2nd tire manufacture or even the threat/rumor etc.

F1 politics = the way of the world. Stupid and selfish. Nothing new really. Sigh

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by javadog

Yes, because their original proposal was blocked by a few of the teams. Their preferred solution was to change the tire construction to one like they used last year, for this specific race.

JR

Do you know which teams blocked the change? I heard there were three and lotus was one, I'd be curious to hear who the others were.

[911Freak]

Rumored to be Ferrari, Lotus and Force India

[450knotOffice]

Originally Posted by javadog

I just find it ironic that Pirelli is taking it up the backside from the teams, drivers and general public, for this problem, in light of the fact that they wanted to make a change for this race that might likely have prevented it and were prevented from doing so by the teams. And, the FIA reprimands them for a tire test that they ran to work on the safety of their product, as used, then 10 days later thinks more testing is a great idea.

JR

You make an excellent point with this statement. No dispute about that. The F1 teams should be looking at themselves for much of this, as they had a chance to mitigate the issue, but could not come to terms on the tire change. F1 politics at its best.

Ultimately, however, it was Pirelli's tire design that seems not quite up to the task. I'm reminded of the Indy debacle nearly a decade ago.

[javadog]

If Pirelli is to be blamed, it ought to be for not asking to make the change in construction on safety grounds. Had they done so, they would have taken a PR hit, but they would have been able to make the change without needing to get unanimous approval from the teams.

You can argue that they should make a more durable tire. There were changes to this year's tires, apart from the choice of belt material, and perhaps there is something in the less-stiff sidewall design used this year that makes damage more likely. It ought to be noted that the delamination failures early in the year are different to the failures experienced yesterday. These were punctures, followed by rapid deflation and total disintegration.

You can argue that the FIA ought to change their curb specifications. There are a least 4 profiles I know of and they are quite different from one another. You'll also note that the corners at Silverstone have a variety of different profiles and there are remnants of prior curbing behind some of them. The FIA track inspection procedures may be lax, as well. It has been noted by one major track designer that the FIA will approve curbs that are not exactly in line with their specs, as long as nobody brings it to their direct attention.

Perhaps there is a maintenance issue, as well. The FIA curbs are designed to keep dirt from migrating from behind the curbs to the track surface. If there is erosion behind the curbs, a sharp edge is exposed that may cut a tire, if the driver drives completely over the curb and comes back across it after the apex. Fill in this gap and the problem doesn't exist.

We'll see who gets the blame in the next few days or weeks.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Ultimately, however, it was Pirelli's tire design that seems not quite up to the task. I'm reminded of the Indy debacle nearly a decade ago.

If I recall, that had to to with a track surface (after a repaving) that was different than the year before. Also a new rule had been put in place prohibitting in-race tire changes. Michelin had no testing data for the 2005 year at that track and got their design wrong. They were only allowed to bring 2 selections to the race, neither of which would do the full race distance. It should be noted that their tires had won every pole position and race up until that point, so maybe they were a little closer to the edge than Bridgestone. It should also be noted that they proposed a temporary chicane be used, as has been used by many other series, some even at that very track (MotoGP uses one, for example). Team politics, and the wrath of Mosely, prevented a solution from being put into place for the race.

Tire companies often get it wrong, whether they are a sole supplier or in competition with another manufacturer. MotoGP has had many such problems in recent years. Nascar even has problems from time to time, as heavily regulated as they are...

JR

[aston@ultrasw.c]

I think the racing surface is being stretched to the point of absurdity.

I think the FIA rules are along the following lines, the racing surface is bounded by a white line and part of one tire must be in contact with the racing surface at all times, or the car is considered off track.

So you can have three wheels in the dirt as long as the 4th tire has one edge just in contact with the white line.

If, while in this condition, you suffer damage to part of the car I say tough luck.

In fact at many circuits you see cars going 4 wheels off with no penalty being applied.

What's the point of having a race track if you can drive wherever you want?

[yellowperil]

Two things about the race I'd like to bring up: I think Vettel made a lot of people happy when he broke and second I think Webber gained some respect from fans and the team when he upped his game and tried to catch Rosb. Maybe he has finally grown a pair and may have the upper hand in the team in these, his final few races.

When RB radio told him to "go get 'em" and his response "going to" was like a breathe of fresh air.

[Won]

[Ronbo]

Here's a schedule of the remainder of the season and which channel they will be broadcast on:

[tonythetarga]

Thanks for that! At the beginning of the season I just set my DVR with a series program and don't check every race time or channel. I also fast forward the practice and quali and miss the commercials which advertise the channel and times. I was used to having everything on SPEED before. It was just like the RONCO commercial...set it and forget it ;-)
Thanks again.

[racyrocks]

Yes, I think NBC Sports is doing a CRAP job with F1. I set my recorder to Series and my clock a little fast to get all the races, and I get a few minutes of the Tour d'France including US Bank Sports Report with Leigh Diffey giving me all the highlights of the British GP BEFORE it's scheduled to start its "live" coverage (as announced by Diffey during the telecast!). And Diffey sucks as a race commentator--all he does is endlessly repeat old news and announce commericial breaks. I suggest bring back Bob Varsha and replace Steve Machett with Will Buxton. Machett hasn't worked on a F1 car in ages; he parrots whatever insights Buxton notes during the race. I can't see NBC Sports covering F1 for too long; they are not used to a small but knowledgeable audience that is sick of pablum

[javadog]

NBC isn't doing anything that SPEED didn't do. Remember the 4 races each year that were shown first on FOX?

Back to the tire saga:

"Pirelli believes that the British GP tyre failures were caused by a combination of factors and that they were unrelated to the delaminations it encountered earlier this season.

It claims that a combination of rear tyres being swapped (which put undue pressure on the wrong sidewall), low tyre pressures, extreme cambers and high kerbs at Silverstone - especially from The Loop - contributed to the failures.

To prevent a repeat, Pirelli wants it to be made mandatory that real time tyre data – including pressures and cambers – is made available for its engineers during a race.

It also wants limits on pressures and cambers to be enforced by the FIA."

JR

[racyrocks]

Save for the addition of Diffey, the absence of Varsha, tape delay of Qualifing (as in the British GP), and the "flexible" TV schedule (we'll televise it when we damn well want!), you may have a point Javadog. And I do remember FOX's coverage; it was CRAP then too!! Plus they had no pre- and postrace review. That was all on SPEED

[aston@ultrasw.c]

can't they come up with some new phrases

boy-oh-boy and no-doubt-about-it are getting v. old