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I had a health issue a number of years ago where I thought I was going to die. I became very relaxed and thought I've never been so comfortable in all my life. I had a silent chuckle to myself what hard work it is going to be for my sisters to sort out my affairs, sorry bad term - my stuff. They knew where I lived but no idea of where I had stocks and rental houses or where my friends lived. In fact I felt pretty darn comfortable about the whole thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aigel (Post 7603101)

In my younger years I used to panic just thinking about my own death. But I get less and less worried with age. Once death has started to chip away at your body and you realize you will never be 20 again, the unavoidable path forward becomes clearer every birthday, decade, milestone of your life.

Only two things that currently worry me:

1) Going too early, while a young family still needs you.

2) Dying slowly, bedridden for years, with pain and being a financial and emotional drain on your family.

Think of it this way: Ideally you are going to be old, with a worn out body, many of your friends dead and it will be obvious that death is the last chapter. I have witnessed this many times. People are ready by that time. Life is more miserable than death, once your body is spent. You will know when it is time to stop taking your meds, tip the nurse and ask her to be generous on the morphine.

Let's just make the time count that we are here.

G

I'm with you there George. I hate to think what life would be like for my wife and kids (3, 6, 9) if I died. I'm sure they would get by, but it would be very difficult on my wife as I provide 90% of our income. My grandmother is living #2 in the Alzheimer's wing of a nursing home, she became too much for my parents to take care of in their home. I honestly wish she would get her wish and die, being bedridden and senile is not living.

My grandfather lived to 83, and was still working 40+ hours per week at the business that he built from nothing. Still doing things he enjoyed, still mobile, still mentally with it. He died of a heart attack in his sleep. THAT is the way to go.

I've done what I can to get ready. Everything I own is in a trust, trustee has pretty explicit instructions. I have a living will and a medical power of attorney with a close friend, also explicit instructions.
I used to think about the loss of dignity in decline. I dread the shift from being a proud, autonomous, and modest man to peeing my pants, having my butt exposed to strangers, and having someone feed me. From what I've observed at dad's nursing home people get used to that pretty quick.
I'm not afraid of the end, but I do not want to go like my father - six years in a nursing home not knowing who he was. Ahhh, it's ugly business, death. I want no part of it. Just being here one instant and gone the next would suit me fine.

Death, to me, has always been just another adventure. Having almost died a year ago now, it's not a big deal. Helps that I've done everything I've wanted, only regret would be not having kids if I died now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweezers74 (Post 7602508)

He's right, you set the tone. Being a hospice nurse and seeing quite a few deaths, I can confidently say you are in control of your death. Not when you die, but rather how you die. Even if it is something unexpected. For example, if I died tomorrow, I know my family and friends would be ok because of how I spoke of death. they would be sad, but they would be at peace. That being said, a lot of it still is in your control. You would think that a young father dying of cancer would be horrible or sad... Well, it was sad. All deaths are sad. But it wasn't horrible. In fact it was lovely. I know it is ironic to say but it was. Don't be fearful of it. It's part of the cycle. Everybody dies. So as soon as you embrace the idea that dying is what you are supposed to do, it brings some sort of peace and acceptance. And when you witness a good peaceful death, you realize it isn't so scary.

He chose what he was going to wear when he died. He picked his soccer uniform. He chose to have his two kids lay in his hospital bed as he took his last breaths. The wall behind him plastered with colorful crayon drawn pictures of him depicted as a cartoon character, kicking around a soccer ball. He chose to have his hospital bed in the living room as opposed to the bedroom because he knew that's where all the daily happenings occur. And even though at the near end, he laid with his eyes closed most of the day, he could still hear his kids watching TV, playing, his wife cooking dinner. When he took his last breath, I swear he was smiling. He had his arm around his son and his other around his daughter, with his head resting on the top of hers, eyes closed. His wife was standing at the foot of the bed, with one hand on his leg. And although she had tears streaming down her face, she also had a big toothy smile. You could see she was such in awe with the scene of her husband and her children. All of us were crying but I swear I have never felt so much love and peace as I did then.

It is customary to have follow up visits with family after their loved ones passed away. To make sure the family didn't need further assistance with anything. Finances, funeral arrangements, counseling, etc. When I went back to visit that family, the children were laying on the floor where the bed had stood, pictures were still up on the wall, they were coloring new ones. And as I sat there talking to their mother, she actually was smiling, talking about his passing. Yes, you could see she was grieving but you could see, she was looking at that spot, with that same look of peace and love in her face as that day. She told me she was so appreciative that they could all have that moment together and it would be something she would always cherish. She said the kids seemed to do very well with it and in fact, spoke about it a lot and instead of being scary, it helped them say goodbye to Daddy.

Yes, you set the tone. Your family can be hysterical and emotionally distraught. You can't help all of that. But if you show them that you are at peace with it, it helps them be at peace with it. Death is like a lot of things in life. It isn't necessarily the situation but how you handle it depends on if it ends up being a good or bad experience. You don't have control of when you die but you can control everything else about it.

And don't spend your the days of your LIFE, worrying about your death. That's just a waste. And another thing, I can tell you what really matters. :) You ask how I know? Well, when you take care of enough people when they are dying, they let you on to that secret. I can't remember one patient saying they wished they had taken that high paying job or wished they had a million dollars. Most said they wished they would have spent more time with their kids, their friend, their spouse. It sounds so boring and cliché but its the truth. And all of them said they wished they weren't so scared to live. Ironic, isn't it? That they would have taken more chances, more risks. Done what their inner voice was telling them rather than what other people thought.

And one more thought before I shut up, you say you are terrified to leave this world and the people you love. Don't you see if you are terrified, the loved ones you are leaving will be terrified as well? I have several books that might help you through that fear.

My patients have taught me a lot about death AND life. I am not scared of death. I think of it more as a phase in my life cycle. A phase that everybody goes through, not just me. And after seeing countless loving and peaceful deaths as I described above, no, death does not scare me.

PM if you want to know more about those books. :)

Write that book

We are the only animals that go through life with the knowledge that we will die one day.

It's that knowledge that makes us human. It makes life precious to us and provides value to good deeds, to love, to compassion and to joy. Death is a valuable part of living that influences our actions and makes it great to be alive.

Certainly it represents the unknown and potentially an eternity of nothingness. But maybe not. There's a song that says something like "everyone says they want to go to heaven, but no one wants to go now".

not like Tweeze..
I saw them when that drunk hit them or the IED went off..
that's what we don't like..
a bad painful death..
folks are scared..
not the dying part..
you can see they know...
it's the chance to say or make things right..
so while a hell is breaking loose..
you hold their hand and tell them..
I will tell her..
even if he didn't..

if my last words aren't I love you..
it's because I didn't get the chance..

Rika

Not to be argumentative, Choc, but how do you know humans are the only animals with knowledge of their own mortality? I think the evidence is mounting that animals have much higher levels of cognition, self-awareness and time than previously thought, so why not death?

As far as we humans go, with the new brain imaging technology these days, many neuroscientists are beginning to question long-held notions of consciousness. Persistent vegatative states for example are no longer thought of being as vegetative as we once thought. Personally, this scares me.

Having watched my brother lose function after function following a massive brain aneurism, and having to decide if/when to cease mechanical support, I didn't have much choice about these questions being thrust on me.

Then, losing both parents and my best friend, I have ever since and increasingly been gaining a clearer persepective on just about everything. For one thing, my life and the lives of those I love have improved in not so small a part because of death and the deaths of those I loved.

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Originally Posted by Rikao4 (Post 7603452)

I have seen that too. I didn't say all deaths were nice. I said how your family and how you see death and dying beforehand helps your family deal with it later. I saw a man bleed out. Dark red blood coming out of everywhere. He was only 25. His wife was pregnant. Like I said, you can't choose when you die or how. Am I scared of pain? Am I scared if I get hit by a car? Am I worried that I might die before I am ready? Sure. But of actually dying? No. As I see it, it is a necessary part of life. Part of the cycle.

Sounds like we both have witnessed horrible deaths. But at the same time, it reminds us that life is unpredictable. It sounds so conflicting but I consider myself lucky to witness all the deaths I did before I was 30. Most people don't "see the whole picture" until much later in life. And I am guilty of getting caught up in the daily grind, but when I was a hospice nurse or worked in trauma, you realize that in a split second, life can be turned upside down. But should we necessarily live our lives in constant fear? That would be a shame. Even in times of tragedy, sadness, I truly believe you can always find opposing forces of love. Everybody is on this earth for a reason and no matter how small, everybody touches somebody else. When a young soldier dies, I can not say that I don't think it is fair or that he wasn't scared. But I know I have shed many tears looking at pictures of strangers who have been killed in combat. I have stood in front of monuments, crying over names that lived and died 50 years before me and I have never seen their face. And I know I am not the only one. That brings me comfort. That their life was not forgotten. That me, a stranger, 50 years later, is still touched by their life and death. And yes, there are people that pass away without even a blink from any other human being. But you don't know what life that person has led and who they might have touched before then.

Once, I took care of a hospice patient that lived alone. Hated me coming. She never married. She never had kids. She was kind of a grouchy woman. Not rude. Just wanted her space. A week before she died, she told me that she never wanted to get married. She said,"and honey, it was the days where girls got married. People didn't think highly of me." But she laughed and said she had the time of her life. She pulled out a photo album and showed me a worn yellowed newspaper article. Standing in the picture was a young woman, dressed in a military dress. I forget what branch it was but she was beautiful! Long legs in heels. She stood with her lips curled in a smile and her hair done perfectly in that style you only see in pin-up girl posters nowadays. She turned to me and proudly said,"I was the first woman to be recruited". Don't know if that meant in her town, the branch of military or what, but I didn't interrupt her to ask. She told me her job was to go and recruit men to enlist. She turned and winked at me. "I had a lot fun." And for a split second I could see the woman in that picture. I imagine she was a spitfire when she was younger. When she died, she was alone in her house. But I almost think she wanted it that way. Like I said, she was a spitfire. I don't think she would want anybody to see her frail and weak. She wanted people to remember her like she was in that picture. And I would bet there are a lot of men who still remember her like that. :) And oddly enough, a young nurse who visited her for a month before she passed, will too. And now, a whole bunch of people reading her story on an Internet board. You don't know who you will touch but remember you will ALWAYS touch at least one person....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 7603297)

... only regret would be not having kids if I died now.

Apparently you can have Schumi's if he has any.

I'm going to start working on my own next summer after getting settled in NY. But I bet Mike would have some kickass kids if he chose to have any, and I think he will. Lot of crabby folks on that thread.

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Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 7603877)

I'm going to start working on my own next summer ...

Well, Shaun, you actually need more than just yourself to make kids happen. Perhaps that's been part of your problem?

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Originally Posted by Rikao4 (Post 7603452)

Rika that is beautifully written.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by tweezers74 (Post 7602536)

Oh and about your father, I had many patients like him too. Go getters who didn't want to live like that. Don't worry, he will go quick because he wants to. Seriously. I had so many patients who were "fine" in the sense they weren't on the brink of death but were so independent that they DESPISED using a walker or oxygen. Those went fast. They just told their body to stop. Then you got the ones that had unfinished business and you swear they were on their last breath two weeks ago. I got a really good story about that one and about unfinished business. ;)

I SHOULD go write that book. ;)

Interesting. I had a MIL that wouldn't go. I couldn't figure out what her "unfinished business" was, but I have an idea. She was a really God fearing Southern lady. You can take it from there.

Me, when I drop dead on the sidewalk from a heart attack, I just want it to be fairly quick. I know that some know they are gravely injured. I can't imagine what has to go through their minds as they expire.

Quote:

By Don Ro: I'm suspicious of anyone who says they're not afraid of dying.

Brings to mind Woody Allen's slightly irreverent take on death: “I'm not afraid of death; I just don't want to be there when it happens.”

Cheers
JB

Quote:

I dread the shift from being a proud, autonomous, and modest man to peeing my pants, having my butt exposed to strangers, and having someone feed me.

That's the way we started out in this world, and unfortunately that's the way the greatest majority of us spend our final days it seems. Something amiss about starting out wearing diapers and going out wearing Depends it seems. I asked my 94 year old grandfather what his take was on living to a (very) ripe old age and he smiled and said 'stop at 80."

Tweezers, thanks for what you do. Hopice work is a special thing, done by special people. I know how well they took care of my dad his last few weeks, and eventhough it was hard to take watching him literally whither away, he was not in pain and went peacefully.

I have watched first hand some of my 'Band of Brothers' slip away from Agent Orange related cancer, multiple organ failures, etc. and they were fearless fighters back in their prime. We did some crazy stuff in our time, and lived to tell about it. But in the end they were also very apprehensive and probably scared of what comes next. No way to really prepare for that practically, so just have all your stuff in order and spend as much time as you can with those you love and respect. Then move on.

Serious topic for this forum, but so be it.

I have a plaque on my wall that reads:

Quote:

Life is not a journy to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming, 'Wow! What a ride!'

This is a good mantra to have, in my opinion. Better to enjoy life now, than to regret not enjoying it when you are too old to be able to do so.

-Z-man.

I have become, over the years, sort of detached from the idea of death. Partly or mostly I think because as a medical professional I have seen it so many times and it looked so easy. My relatives were all wigged out when my parents died and I'm sure they viewed me as uncaring because I was not... Yes, I hurt when my Dad passed but viewed it as part of the process having seen animals pass so many times...My Mom basically committed suicide after my Dad passed...just starved herself. Her choice and not mine to talk her out of...she was sick and in misery too. I don't fear it but I don't want it anytime soon either...

We were there when my dad passed after we removed the ventilator(at his request, in writing before he became too ill). Watching the life slip away one breath at a time from a man that I saw as invincible was painful but I think it helped me to cope with him being gone.

As some here know, my family has dealt with several tragic deaths in recent weeks.

I'm not afraid of dying but I would like to stick around for a while longer to see my kids grow up. I've done my diligence in making sure they are taken care of financially when I go so that's not a problem.

I'm not afraid of dying.... it's how I'm gonna die that worries me. I don't want to die suddenly, I'd like to say my good-byes. And I don't want to linger-on for years deathly ill. But all in all its not up to me.

I believe in God and I believe I will be with him so being dead doesn't bother me. I pray that my kids and wife will be okay and that's all I can do.

If you don't believe in God or an after life of sorts I think death is like when they put you to sleep when you have a tooth pulled or a surgical operation... you don't hear anything, you don't see anything and you don't feel anything... Peace at last.

So don't worry about death. Be happy. Live life to the fullest or as best you can.