Knox found guilty again.,

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

O.k., I'm confused. It seems there is no end to convictions that get overturned on appeal here in the U.S. - is this not done in a court of appeal? Or am I even more confused than normal, mixing up legal definitions?



Is there any chance she is really... ... a murderer?

I admittedly never did follow this case, but it seems to me that if she were found guilty - twice - there may be a chance she actually did it. Seems like quite the public outpouring of sympathy for someone who looks for all the world to be a murderer.

I'm not sure how much you know about the Italian "justice" system, but scientistists were considered guilty for saying "There could be an Earthquake within X amount of time but records show it may not be likely" Instead of "There will be an Earthquake in X amount of time".

The Italian justice system is more about "face" than actual justice. Some one has to pay - and it doesn't matter if its the right some one or not, just so long as they can paint the blame over their face its all good.

This also leads to very crazy situations - where a court in one town would find an out of towner guilty - to take the blame off their town, but when it gets to a higher court that isn't related to the town, he is then not guilty... If you're from outside the country - you're really really really screwed on all fronts.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Maybe Italy operates on a "best two outta three" justice system?

[tcar]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

The lower (trial) court found her guilty.(1st swing)

The appeals court (not the Supreme court) declared her innocent--acquitted.

You sound like you have some legal experience... so you should know that that no one is 'declared innocent'... there is no such thing in law (at least in the US).

You probably mean "Not Guilty", the correct declaration, which is a lot different than 'innocent'.

'Not Guilty' means only that 'Guilty' was not proven. It does not mean that she was necessarily 'innocent'.

An important legal point.

[nota]

Rudy Guede did the rape murder
his DNA [real DNA] found and bloody prints
convicted

knox and her BF were not there
cops framed her

[daepp]

"Hi, I'm Amanda Knox for Olive Garden...if you can't actually visit Italy..." Dennis Miller

[island911]

Originally Posted by nota

Rudy Guede did the rape murder
his DNA [real DNA] found and bloody prints
convicted

knox and her BF were not there
cops framed her

Hey, you and I pretty much agree on something (for a change) - except it was the prosecutors who framed her and her BF.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by tcar

You sound like you have some legal experience... so you should know that that no one is 'declared innocent'... there is no such thing in law (at least in the US).

You probably mean "Not Guilty", the correct declaration, which is a lot different than 'innocent'.

'Not Guilty' means only that 'Guilty' was not proven. It does not mean that she was necessarily 'innocent'.

An important legal point.

Yes, it is an important point that I am well aware of. However, I was speaking of the Italian courts, and they indeed declared her "factually innocent" (actually, the judges wrote there was a "material non-existence" of evidence to support the guilty verdicts. No facts to support the verdict of guilty so, factually innocent) which is different than acquittal. I am aware of the differences in the terms and I equated the two in an attempt to simplify things for the sake of another poster.

And factual innocence does exist in U.S. law. Google Michael Morton. “The record contains evidence that a public official may have committed serious misconduct, and that this misconduct may have contributed to the wrongful conviction and lengthy incarceration of … Michael Morton, now known to be factually innocent,” This was the opinion written by the Bexar County state district Judge Sid Harle, who presided over Morton’s exoneration.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by EMJ

-Her and her boyfriend turning off their phones two hours prior to the murder (This wasn't the norm)
-Not downloading and watching movies at his place like they said they did - they didn't
-Boyfriend not backing her story that she was with him all night, etc.
-Her admitting that she was in fact there when the murder took place and she heard the screams
-Knox implicating her boss as the killer, when in fact, DNA pointed to someone else
-Knox blood and victim's blood mixed in the sink drain
-No transfer blood on the comforter that covered the victim (She was covered with the blanket after the blood had dried)
-Knox and her boyfriend told police they had called police when they found the victim when they hadn't
-Knox changed her story several times - why?

All circumstantial. There's more. Mostly it appears evidence of her lying has done her in. Also, if you watch videos of her interviews, at least the ones I've seen, there's hardly a mention of sympathy for the victim. A lot of self pity, narcissistic stuff.

Source: The Trial of Amanda Knox - Dateline NBC - Crime reports | NBC News

Here is an interesting source, former FBI investigator, that lays out a powerful case for her innocence. Professional Opinion From Veteran FBI Agent Steve Moore

Well worth the read if one is truly interested.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Here is an interesting source, former FBI investigator, that lays out a powerful case for her innocence. Professional Opinion From Veteran FBI Agent Steve Moore

Well worth the read if one is truly interested.

I read the article and yes it's interesting but it doesn't answer one question.

Why did the Italian police pursue Amanda and Raffaele Sollecito?

From the other thread...

Originally Posted by island911

Sad.

This guy...



...Rudy Hermann Guede... His DNA was found all over Merridith Kercher's dead body. --Apparently, she really really did not want him to rape her. (put up a big fight)

in 2008 he was given a deal - support what the Italian prosecutors were saying about those two for a reduced sentence. --guess what he gave them.

Yeah, the the Italian prosecutors believe that Amanda and her new BF BOTH felt comfortable enough with each other, both felt comfortable enough with rape and murder, to sit back and watch Merridith Kercher be bruttally raped and killed.

Anything to be 'right' about their knee-jerk assesment

[carambola]

i think she not only did it, but instigated it.

[AFC-911]

Originally Posted by carambola

i think she not only did it, but instigated it.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you basing that on?

[carambola]

Originally Posted by AFC-911

If you don't mind me asking, what are you basing that on?

i remember her confessing.

[porsche4life]

That's right, because no one has ever been coerced into a confession before..

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by carambola

i remember her confessing.

You realize, of course, that the "confession" was:

1. Typed out by the police.
2. Made up of suggested scenarios the police wanted Knox to imagine.
3. Carried out when she was interrogated as a witness, not a suspect.
4. Carried out over a period of 50 hours.
5. Carried out with the assistance of 12 different police interrogators.
6. Carried out without allowing Knox a lawyer.
7. Carried out in Italian without the benefit of a translator.
8. Made without the interrogation being recorded, as required by Italian law.
9. Never a statement that she "did it", only that she was there.
10. Completely recanted by Knox shortly after signing.
11. Absolutely illegal under Italian law.
12. Thrown out by the Italian courts.
13. Never admitted into evidence at her criminal trial.

But, it was widely published in the Italian and British press and was used in the liable trial filed by Patrik Lamumba so the public got a large dose of non-evidence.

[EMJ]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Here is an interesting source, former FBI investigator, that lays out a powerful case for her innocence. Professional Opinion From Veteran FBI Agent Steve Moore

Well worth the read if one is truly interested.

Fascinating read. Thanks for posting. It's hard to question her innocence when you break down the details of the lack of evidence Moore lays out.

[biosurfer1]

I'm not surprised by the "confession". My Italian teacher in highschool was on a train during a trip to Italy one summer. Someone threw a rock at the window and shattered it blowing glass all around the cabin. The officials rushed in and started making everyone sign papers before they even start cleaning up. Since he knew Italian, he said the paper stated something like they don't hold anyone or any entity in Italy responsible for the "accident" and wouldn't pursue any legal proceedings, etc. He said when he refused to sign it, they started yelling at him he had to or he couldn't leave the train, etc. He wasn't hurt too bad so he just did and left.

btw, I can't find anywhere, did they ask the drifter who was also convicted if Knox and the bf were there and what happened?

[javadog]

Yeah, he said he didn't do it, they did. He was taking a crap in the bathroom, listening to his ipod when the murders took place. He also said he didn't have sex with her, although that's been proven. He claims to have tried to help her, although he neglected to call the police and instead went dancing at a club for the rest of the night.

Real credible guy...

That series of articles by the FBI is worth reading. Hard to belive they prsecuted that case, with what lack of any evidence they had. I've also heard that in the retrial, they retested the DNA on the "murder weapon" and found it was not from the victim, yet they convicted them again, in spite of that small problem. The judge also spoke out and said he thought the boyfriend should have tried to put all of the blame on Knox, to improve his own chances for an aquittal. What a guy...

I'm starting to lose interest in going back to Italy for a vacation, any time soon.

JR

[daepp]

Originally Posted by javadog

I'm starting to lose interest in going back to Italy for a vacation, any time soon.

Ditto

[intakexhaust]

And now this... Judge Alessandro Nencini Denies Impropriety Over Knox Trial Comments

Florence Judge Alessandro Nencini, who presided over a judicial panel in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, has been accused of impropriety over comments he made to the media about the case.

The Associated Press reports defense lawyers for Sollecito called Nencini’s comments to the media about the defense strategy a “serious” breach and said they will request disciplinary action from the magistrate’s governing body, the Judicial Ministry, and Italy’s supreme Court of Casssation.

Members of the magistrate’s governing body said Nencini violated the secrecy of deliberations and made comments that suggest “partiality.” They will request an inquiry.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by javadog

I'm starting to lose interest in going back to Italy for a vacation, any time soon.

JR

Originally Posted by daepp

Ditto

just avoid crazed group sex w/ college students

BTW: Do they still turn a blind eye to packs of gypsies pickpocketing and twenty something Italian males who get away with mauling young American girls in public? Serious question.