777 down

[Sunroof]

In this day and age................as insane as it sounds considering the lack of any debris, no location of the EPIRB, no last minute radio contact how many far fectched theories are going to stick? Even if it were some catastophic disintegration you would still find floating debris and they are saying they have come across many items, but nothing from the plane! No surprise given that are oceans are littered. Whats left?

If nothing shows up by the end of this week in come the UFO - "Bermuda Triangle" conspiracy crowd. Steven Spielberg has to be watching!

[NutmegCarrera]

4 8 15 16 23 42

[varmint]

Authorities reveal key clue as they hunt Mr Ali, mystery Iranian businessman who booked their tickets

Read more: Missing Air Malaysia plane passenger on stolen passport 'looked like Mario Balotelli' | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Sunroof]

Interesting, but if it was a plot to destroy or steal the plane, someone would have come forward by now to claim victory. I think Mr. Ali will be some small bit criminal who got these two guys passports so they could travel. Maybe they are wanted and on the run from authorities. Nevertheless the plane is lost and if these guys had a plan to blow the plane up, the vast ongoing sea and air search would have revealed something by now. Very puzzling indeed. Mr. Ali on the otherhand must be freaking out given he is now getting international recognition. A two bit hood makes the worlds most wanted. Wow!

[Head416]

Well, this is admittedly a bizarre and far fetched idea, but what if it didn't crash? What if its been hijacked, and taken to a remote location as part of some sort of ransom plot or to be used as a political bargaining tool?



Complete hogwash, I know, but the lack of answers makes the mind wander.....

The longer this goes on, the less crazy this sounds.

I think I read this week that the pilots can turn off the transponder, is that accurate? Could hijackers force them to turn it off, then fly somewhere else with nobody knowing where they are? I don't see how a plane can crash in the ocean and not leave a huge amount of debris behind.

And in the end, none of this really matters. The families are going through hell right now and the uncertainty must be making it even worse. I mean, what if they NEVER learn more than what they know today? Hard to get closure.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Head416

The longer this goes on, the less crazy this sounds.

I think I read this week that the pilots can turn off the transponder, is that accurate? Could hijackers force them to turn it off, then fly somewhere else with nobody knowing where they are? I don't see how a plane can crash in the ocean and not leave a huge amount of debris behind.

And in the end, none of this really matters. The families are going through hell right now and the uncertainty must be making it even worse. I mean, what if they NEVER learn more than what they know today? Hard to get closure.

I can't speak for the 777, but in most aircraft the transponder can be shut off or disabled. Not so with the ELT, which should have been automatically activated in the event of a crash.

[varmint]

I was expecting that some terrorist group would have taken credit by now. But then khadaffi never took responsibility for Lockerbie.

All just speculation.

[Rickysa]

Kinda hard to make a 777 go stealth

[Sunroof]

If that scenario were true (transponder off) and the plane flew to a remote destination, least we forget satillite reconnaissance. Fuel remaining, outer range of B-777 (was it the LR?), noted fields capable of handling the B-777, go to remote fields, etc. How many? A dozen? Two dozen? Whats the liklihood of visual confirmation (Malaysian markings) by anyone and reporting it by now? It ain't no Cessna 150 landing in the Gobi desert!

Is it feasible, plausible or possible? Maybe, but doubtful.

This may well fall into the realm of something well beyond our scope and boundary. Keep thinking people..................

[Head416]

How hard would it be to bulldoze a mile long strip on a remote island? Just good enough to touch down, not to use as an airport. We have satellites, but you have to know where to look to find what you're looking for. Not saying it's likely, just wondering how possible. Seems more likely than pilots not notifying of an emergency, or a plane crashing and not leaving any debris behind.

[Sunroof]

Do not forget passengers with cell phones. Would that null that out then as far as a remote location? Someone would know something by now and why go that far? You could hold hostages anywhere.

You almost have to start thinking like Tom Clancey or what think tank in the CIA might be formulating. Makes all the possibilities interesting. Could be the biggest mystery of this century so far if someone does not find something soon.

[Sunroof]

The Boeing 777 cockpit.

[gordner]

You can de-activate the transponders for sure. The point of the ELT is only valid if they did indeed crash, if hijacked and instructed to kill outgoing transmissions the aircraft could be turned fully black by the crew. Not as easy these days as it was, but doable.
And if it was an over-ocean at altitude take over then cell phones would be a moot point, one would expect they could remove all cell's from passenger before re-entering a service area, or they could employ a simple cell jammer.

[gordner]

And you have to remember as well, if it was hijacked and landed somewhere, you do not as a terrorist need a field that you can then take off from. An aircraft can land in a surprisingly small run in a pinch, flying out is when the field length is necessary.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by gordner

The oil slick was determined to not have originated from the aircraft, so at this time still no sign as I understand it.
(snip)
As far as location, the area in question is not an area that has systems that allow controllers to hard "paint"an aircraft, in areas such as this the "radar" system is really not a radar, it is the aircraft reporting her position to ATC, not ATC discerning her position by actual radar. So a significant transponder or nav system issue could have the aircraft reporting a gross postion error and everyone looking in the wrong area.

I'm thinking this is the most reasonable explanation, given what we "know" so far, at least as to why the plane is still missing. Evidence indicates the plane making a turn, but how long it flew in that new direction ended at 2:41 a.m. If the plane continued on after disappearing, it may be in the Adaman Sea or even on the Malay peninsula somewhere. Still, it's anyone's guess as to why there was not voice communications during this whole time.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

[/B]

I'm thinking this is the most reasonable explanation, given what we "know" so far, at least as to why the plane is still missing. Evidence indicates the plane making a turn, but how long it flew in that new direction ended at 2:41 a.m. If the plane continued on after disappearing, it may be in the Adaman Sea or even on the Malay peninsula somewhere. Still, it's anyone's guess as to why there was not voice communications during this whole time.

Indeed, to *see* over the horizon - the signal needs to be bouncing off the atmosphere or ground - which makes pinpointing location not quite that useful. Long Range Rader lets you know something is out there, but that is pretty much it.

[gordner]

The accuracy of the ATC position in this case comes from the aircraft systems, not ATC's radars. So a gross position error on the aircraft would translate to a gross position error for ATC.
Essentially the aircraft nav systems keep track of where the aircraft is and when "pinged" by ATC radar (radio transmission asking for position data) the AC transponder reports the position. Real radar is a transmitted signal going out, bouncing off a target and returning. In this system the outbound signal and the return signal are not the same signal at all, the out bound is received by the AC and a new signal return generated by the xponder.

[motion]

Perhaps one of the cockpit crew slipped the other one a pill to disable him, then did a banzai suicide run straight down into the ocean. If the plane went straight in, at a steep angle, it could possibly take quite a while for the debris to be visible. Just a WAG.

[ossiblue]

I'm going to bring this up again, for the third time, because I'm becoming more and more convinced it will play a part in the final outcome.

The plane lost contact/communication at ~1:22 am, when it failed to turn over control of the flight path to Vietnamese controllers. This could be the beginning of the incident whether it be from electronic failure or human intervention. Regardless, the plane continued to fly and be identified for another hour and nineteen minutes. It is most likely this identification was from the plane itself, not land based radar. During this hour plus flying, the plane changed course, apparently heading for home, when the identification signal stopped. It was 2:41 a.m.

Whatever caused the initial loss of contact with the Vietnamese controllers could account for any future failures at voice communications--that's why the crew never called out for help nor notified home of their plight. Perhaps the communication failure was being addressed as they continued on, discovered to be more serious that originally believed, and the crew decided to turn back. During the return flight, whatever caused the initial communication failure compounded into a failure of the broadcast system that identifies the plane, and so the plane "disappears" from ground receptors at 2:41 a.m. How far did it travel in that hour and nineteen minutes? What direction was it traveling? Did the plane continue to fly after the identification signal stopped? If so, how much longer?

All the above is just speculation, of course, based on limited information. However, I'm beginning to think they will find the plane far from where the initial search has taken place. Further, and for no logical reason, I'm starting to doubt the terrorist angle. I offer these thoughts as fodder to us all in a general discussion of this mystery, and in an attempt to move away from the tin foil hat explanations of aliens, Bermuda Triangles, and complicated kidnapping plots.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

I'm going to bring this up again, for the third time, because I'm becoming more and more convinced it will play a part in the final outcome.

The plane lost contact/communication at ~1:22 am, when it failed to turn over control of the flight path to Vietnamese controllers. This could be the beginning of the incident whether it be from electronic failure or human intervention. Regardless, the plane continued to fly and be identified for another hour and nineteen minutes. It is most likely this identification was from the plane itself, not land based radar. During this hour plus flying, the plane changed course, apparently heading for home, when the identification signal stopped. It was 2:41 a.m.

Whatever caused the initial loss of contact with the Vietnamese controllers could account for any future failures at voice communications--that's why the crew never called out for help nor notified home of their plight. Perhaps the communication failure was being addressed as they continued on, discovered to be more serious that originally believed, and the crew decided to turn back. During the return flight, whatever caused the initial communication failure compounded into a failure of the broadcast system that identifies the plane, and so the plane "disappears" from ground receptors at 2:41 a.m. How far did it travel in that hour and nineteen minutes? What direction was it traveling? Did the plane continue to fly after the identification signal stopped? If so, how much longer?

All the above is just speculation, of course, based on limited information. However, I'm beginning to think they will find the plane far from where the initial search has taken place. Further, and for no logical reason, I'm starting to doubt the terrorist angle. I offer these thoughts as fodder to us all in a general discussion of this mystery, and in an attempt to move away from the tin foil hat explanations of aliens, Bermuda Triangles, and complicated kidnapping plots.

Plausible. But what event could 100% disable the communications system on the airplane while still allowing it to fly for AT LEAST another 1:20? Remember that it's a modern 777 with three VHF radios, two HF radios, satellite phone, and satellite datalink. It also likely had satellite internet access. These systems would be isolated for safety and redundancy so that one incident couldn't take them all out.