777 down

[FLYGEEZER]

The chain of events in equipment shutdown ...IFF/SIF (transponder) , ACARS, VHF/UHF, and what ever else, had to be accomplished by a person that was more than intimate about the "internals" of the 777-200 let alone be able to fly the thing and make course changes. This mornings news mentioned alttitude down to 20,000 ft. up to 40,000 ft I don't know how this was determined but, if true, was this to first reduce cabin pressure differental to allow some one to turn the cabin auto control to manual & open the outflow valve or shut down an A/C pack, then climb to 40 grand .......and "put the passengers to sleep" While the crew was on the mask @ 100% I know,,,OMG !!!! That plus the fact that the 777 flew on for up to 7 hours.

I'm thinkin they are going to find some of these answers in the search of the pilots homes. The Captain has a 777 FTD (simulator..visual no motion) in his house? I've was at this game all my adult life. I've got almost 17,000 hrs flt time & another 3500 + in some kinda simulator and have been around pilots & flight engineers a long time and NEVER did I run into anybody that had any kind of flt simulator in their house! Was this guy ate up or was he using this thing for something other than "sharpening his skills" ? The only person I know that does have a very nice FTD in his home is retired attorney and a hobby flyer only. Think about this.. If flying is your full time job, having a simulator to fly would be like a bus driver taking a road trip in his car on a day off. Christ, I hope I'm wrong.......This thing ain't good.

[mreid]

IFF mode C.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by FLYGEEZER

The chain of events in equipment shutdown ...IFF/SIf (transponder) , ACARS, VHF/UHF, and what ever else, had to be accomplished by a person that was more than intimate about the "internals" of the 777-200 let alone be able to fly the thing and make course changes. This mornings news mentioned alttitude down to 20,000 ft. up to 40,000 ft I don't know how this was determined but, if true, was this to first to reduce cabin pressure differental to allow some one to turn the cabin auto control to manual & open the outflow valve or shut down an A/C pack, then climb to 40 grand .......and "put the passengers to sleep" While the crew was on the mask @ 100% I know,,,OMG !!!! That plus the fact that the 777 flew on for up to 7 hours.

I'm thinkin they are going to find some of these answers in the search of the pilots homes. The Captain has a 777 FTD (simulator..visual no motion) in his house? I've was at this game all my adult life. I've got almost 17,000 hrs flt time & another 3500 + in some kinda simulator and have been around pilots & flight engineers a long time and NEVER did I run into anybody that had any kind of flt simulator in their house! Was this guy ate up or was he using this thing for something other than "sharpening his skills" ? The only person I know that does have a very nice FTD in his home is retired attorney and a hobby flyer only. Think about this.. If flying is your full time job, having a simulator to fly would be like a bus driver taking a road trip in his car on a day off. Christ, I hope I'm wrong.......This thing ain't good.

One of the greatest frustrations expressed by the U.S. investigators is the apparent fact that the Malaysians have yet to search the homes of the pilots or crew or, at least, inform outsiders that they have. It is becoming more clear that a very experienced and well trained individual or individuals were involved. Why not vet the most logical suspects first--the flight crew?

A possible scenario, given the most recent information.

One pilot leaves to nap, we hear the other say, "Good night." Once he leaves, the other tries to overpower the remaining crew (one other?) and succeeds but he is injured. He proceeds to take control, shuts off the communications from the cockpit, climbs the aircraft to 40,000' or more to kill the crew and passengers, plane plummets and he is able to recover control, settles in for his destination. Hours later, he is succumbing to his injuries, getting confused/weak and unable to complete mission. Plane goes down.

I hate to think it was one of the pilots but the expertise needed to make the plane do what it seems to have done points in that direction.

BTW, a discouraging bit of information. Even if the voice recorder is discovered, we may never know what happened. Apparently, the recorder is a 2 1/2 hour loop that records over itself. Since the plane flew for approx. five hours, any noise/conversation during that time would record over the earlier ones. The crucial events inside the cockpit, just after radar was lost, will not be there.

[ckissick]

What benefit is there in being able to shut off communications systems from the cockpit? It should just be on at all times with no way of shutting it off. Right?

[kiwiokie]

Strange that there has been no group claiming the successful act of terrorism and if you wanted to simply kill the passengers it seems like that could have been done with much more media impact by simply turning around crashing into the Petronas twin towers in KL. To go to this level of effort to "hide" the aircraft either the aircraft itself is the purpose of the act or the ransoming of the return of the passengers. There has been no claim for ransom that has been discussed so that leaves the aircraft. What is a used 777 worth and could anyone operate a stolen 777 without assistance from Boeing? Seems unlikely. So probably not many buyers out there. Part it out? Could do but I believe the value of parts is in the paperwork that goes with them and they would have none. So what other use would a bad guy have for a 777 ER? Only think I can think of is that it flies a long way and could be loaded with a lot of explosive material.

[FLYGEEZER]

Gotta be that way for fault/fire isolation procedures if needed.

[GWN7]

A "flight simulator" in new media speak could be a Atari game with missile command in it.

A media outlet went to the pilots mosque and was told he was a very nice man.

It could be no group has made claim of what happened because it was just one person acting alone.

[nostatic]

Truth is turning out to be stranger than fiction by the moment. Lots of laptops at Starbucks around LA are typing out "Terror on Flight 318" right now.

So the plot is one or both pilots commandeers plane, climbs to 45K' to kill pax, turns around a flies to unknown location, lands plane, and now is planning to fuel it up and fly it into the Forbidden City or ?. Some govt would have to be complicit, and if they did land and intend to fly again, they'd end up with a fighter "escort" as soon as they were ID'd. Of course it is a big world, and softer target countries (Indonesia?) might not the capabilities to intercept.

This is all crazy...

[VaSteve]

what the hell you talking about, Todd?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Truth is turning out to be stranger than fiction by the moment. Lots of laptops at Starbucks around LA are typing out "Terror on Flight 318" right now.

So the plot is one or both pilots commandeers plane, climbs to 45K' to kill pax, turns around a flies to unknown location, lands plane, and now is planning to fuel it up and fly it into the Forbidden City or ?. Some govt would have to be complicit, and if they did land and intend to fly again, they'd end up with a fighter "escort" as soon as they were ID'd. Of course it is a big world, and softer target countries (Indonesia?) might not the capabilities to intercept.

This is all crazy...

I can't think of a better plot to ensure China just about turns Xinjiang into one big killing field or at least concentration camp. Any hint of Uighurs' fingerprints on this is going to be suicide for their entire race. China would have no compunction about wiping them off the map. Hans are already a majority in Xinjiang and this would be the excuse the gov't. needs to rally public support for really getting tough on them.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by GWN7

A "flight simulator" in new media speak could be a Atari game with missile command in it.
.

My understanding is that it's the real deal. No motion, but like having the machine in your living room.

[greglepore]

Unless a gov't is involved, I doubt a triple 7 is on the ground somewhere unknown.

Suspect that either a) the speculation about a flight crew seizure is accurate, and that something went wrong afterward or it was an elaborate suicide by hypoxia (with a Payne Stewart type flight after)

or

a government intervention in a hijack which they don't want to/won't disclose

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by kiwiokie

Strange that there has been no group claiming the successful act of terrorism and if you wanted to simply kill the passengers it seems like that could have been done with much more media impact by simply turning around crashing into the Petronas twin towers in KL. To go to this level of effort to "hide" the aircraft either the aircraft itself is the purpose of the act or the ransoming of the return of the passengers. There has been no claim for ransom that has been discussed so that leaves the aircraft. What is a used 777 worth and could anyone operate a stolen 777 without assistance from Boeing? Seems unlikely. So probably not many buyers out there. Part it out? Could do but I believe the value of parts is in the paperwork that goes with them and they would have none. So what other use would a bad guy have for a 777 ER? Only think I can think of is that it flies a long way and could be loaded with a lot of explosive material.

If terrorism, they've succeeded. Irrelevant the value of a plane. They have defeated security measures and demonstrated their capabilities. Why would they give a clue who, why and how? We already know the majority of what radical terrorist are about. They create more FEAR into others by not giving an explanation, especially in this particular case. Its the element of surprise, and again if in fact terrorist, the probability of this happening again is good.

Now onto the pilots or crew. So we know of two past pilot suicide taking down two civilian planes. Its happened so perhaps this is another case. Does that part of the world regularly check the psyche of their pilots?

Are they connected to a radical belief? Just because they have an unblemished record, that makes even less likely to be discovered as a radical. That's the perfect terrorist lurking among us and most scary.

[afterburn 549]

Its siting in Pakistan or Muslim territory as a bargaining chip for Guantanamo prisoners

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Its siting in Pakistan or Muslim territory as a bargaining chip for Guantanamo prisoners

I doubt that. With only three Americans onboard, that's not a big bargaining chip. And it's a LOT of mouths to feed. How could an exchange take place? Giving their position away would ensure the wrath of God on anyone in the area. Not bloody likely. No jihadi could really believe they're gonna be successful in a hostage situation of this magnitude.

[ossiblue]

One thing brought up last night on CNN by an investigator who helped find the Air France plane. The search areas in the Indian Ocean now being combed and thought to be the most likely locations, are well within the circle created by a plane flying for around five hours. Even if the data is correct and the last location was in these areas, what was the plane doing all that time that let it get only that far after so long flying?

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I doubt that. With only three Americans onboard, that's not a big bargaining chip. And it's a LOT of mouths to feed. How could an exchange take place? Giving their position away would ensure the wrath of God on anyone in the area. Not bloody likely. No jihadi could really believe they're gonna be successful in a hostage situation of this magnitude.

Because the whole world is watching, It does not matter where the hostages are from.
What will Obummer do ? Sacrifice the worlds hostages ?
POTUS is weak weak.
The world knows it. This is the ultimate Check Mate.
A speech will not free them , he will have to actually do something strategic and he has no one in his in his little world with a brain to advise him

[Rick Lee]

Ain't never gonna happen. While I'm sure Obama would personally like to send every Gitmo detainee home with an apology and a seven figure restitution, he won't ever do it and certainly wouldn't do it under duress. We're really getting into mental masturbation mode here.

[Seahawk]

I spent an hour this morning looking at digital aviation maps of the "corridors" the news outlets were talking about the jet could have flown.

There are, when I stopped counting, over a three hundred places for the plane to safely land in a seven hour arc. I am sure folks are en route to them.

The most interesting thing to me is the lack of real world radar tapes of the aircraft. The IFF/Transponder is fine, but tracking a 777 with radar isn't exactly hard especially since the whole air traffic grid would have been alerted as soon as the flight goes silent with the IFF/Transponder.

I can't imagine a scenario where the route controllers, after losing flight 318, don't alert everyone.

Also, the USN: Tracking a 777 with Aegis is like OldE and I exchanging flashlight beams at three feet

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Also, the USN: Tracking a 777 with Aegis is like OldE and I exchanging flashlight beams at three feet

I don't think I want to be flying in a 777 in that part of the world any time soon...