E85 as a high-octane performance fuel

[tedg04]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Any opinion/data on running E85 in old, higher compression (9.5 - 10:1) engines? I don't care about fuel mileage, I just don't want to damage my engine.

It would likely make more power/torque without damaging the engine so long as it was richened up quite a bit.
As someone else mentioned, the extra ethanol will likely ruin much of the fuel system unless replaced with different hoses/components.
In a hot-rod weekend car, I would consider it if I lived somewhere it was more readily available. It doesn't make sense for me here though, as E85 is harder to find than ethanol free gas.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by speeder

Politics aside, ethanol sucks balls.

I'd love to hear why a fuel would suck

[speeder]

Because it costs consumers so much in lost energy per gallon+ other indirect costs, (hard to separate politics, I know). Bad news for many parts on the older machinery I run.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by speeder

Because it costs consumers so much in lost energy per gallon+ other indirect costs, (hard to separate politics, I know). Bad news for many parts on the older machinery I run.

Bad news for older machinery, yes. But that's not the fuel's fault. Current ULSD Diesel fuel would be bad for older machinery too, yet I don't hear you saying it sucks balls.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by tedg04

As someone else mentioned, the extra ethanol will likely ruin much of the fuel system unless replaced with different hoses/components.

Uh, not going to do that. If it comes to changing components I'll just put spacers under the cylinders to lower the compression and use straight 93. For the past 30 years I've used 100LL from the local airport and make a 33/66 mix with 93 octane pump gas. It works fine, since I seldom travel more than a tank away from home. The only problem is the management at the FBO changes a lot and I always have to talk the new one into selling me gas in a can.
Hmmm, I wonder how E85 affects the cork seal in the reserve tank selector.

[speeder]

I have zero problems running new ULSD in my old diesels. I do add a small amount of lubricity additive sometimes. Running great.

[djantlive]

My fren runs that in his Gtr w a tune. He is always gassing up while others are 1/2 tank full on drives. To make things worse, e85 stations are pricier and much harder to find than diesel.

I suppose e85 is a substitute for high octane which is $$. Considering lower mileage and price of e85 vs 100 octane, I think many chooses e85

[speeder]

I'm well aware of the benefits of E85 in a high performance engine tuned for it. My recent Evo 9 MR had been heavily modified and running E85 or 91 octane with a dual ECU program, controlled by a switch in glove box. It made 500+ hp on ethanol and that is nothing for those cars. Many make a lot more, this was a mild tune.

I just think that it's schit fuel because of the inefficiency of it and the cost overall.

[beepbeep]

Our E85 is sold with roughly the same energy/price ratio and I've been driving on E85 for last 12 years. No problems with seals. One 170kmiles fuel pump died on my Audi S4, but I suppose it was already worn out.

Pumps are everywhere and most of the time, it actually costs less per mile to drive on Ethanol.

I love it. It's hard on ignition system though, it takes a lot of spark energy to light it up on high boost.

[VINMAN]

ULSD sucks balls too.....

.

[aschen]

E-85 + a tune can yield 10-25% hp gains for modern turbocharged cars

[island911]

Or, you can get there w/o the E85. Read, it's not so much the fuel that gets you the extra boost.

[aschen]

Except for the fact that you need the fuel to add the boost or your car will self destruct in short order.

Or you can run expensive race gas, or meth/water injection, etc

The fact is E85 enables the large power gains

[Por_sha911]

E85 is hard on older fuel system rubber parts and seals not able to tolerate the solvent properties.
It also has a much greater water absorption issue. When phase separation takes place you are in a world of hurt.

So lets step back and take a look at the results. E85 is:
-at best, the same price as regular gas but is usually more expensive.
-severely poorer fuel mileage. Stopping more frequently also reduces economy.
-doesn't store well.
-has a higher risk of water absorption which causes damage to even flex fuel the systems.
-more corrosive to older fuel systems.
-has created a drain of corn supplies with increases food costs (corn for beef, corn for sweeteners which go in a ton of food and drink products, etc).

What a great deal.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

It works really well in modern engines with modern combustion chambers, optimized port velocity. It is a serious tuning challenge with older designs like hemi or large chambers with domed pistons.

I notice a big drop in pop when I couldn't get straight gas and put in E15. I think I may head to the airport with a drum and fill it up with av gas.

The 911 engine is a hemi no? The combustion chamber is not flat, domed shaped so its a hemi right?

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by speeder

I have zero problems running new ULSD in my old diesels. I do add a small amount of lubricity additive sometimes. Running great.

a little bio-diesel (or soy based parts washer solvent - same thing) will add lubricity and boost your cetane...

[txhokie4life]

As a data point -- we switched our ChumpCar 924S over to E85.

It's ~10:1 compression ratio.

We never dyno'd it -- but our butt dyne says we're faster and have more grunt.

We burn about 15% more fuel -- which is less than you would expect since our conversion was simply to use Turbo injectors which flow about 27% more -- which is about the right flow rate for E85 relative to pump gas.

Why do we only burn 15% more -- I believe it is because of the extra power, we are WOT less of the time on the track.

This is a non-scientific study. But where we could run about 2hours on a full tank of gas -- we now can only run 1hr 45min. Had we burned through 27% more fuel -- we'd be at the ~1.5hr mark.

Cheers,

Mike
Flat Out Racing #85